Got some barrels

[esc]

I got a source for a continuing supply of 2 or 3 free, plastic, 55 gallon, barrels a week.  They each have 2 screw in plugs on top with rubber gaskets.  The plugs have places where you can break them out and fit pipes.

They were originally used to store a variety of things including: Soap, Silicone Tire/vinyl conditioner and engine degreaser.

I think that the ones that came with soap would probably be OK for potable water, but I'm not so sure about the rest.

I'm not so sure about the ones that had silicone in them and I have serious misgivings about the ones that came with engine degreaser.  I plan on taking the labels to my neighborhood toxicologist to see what he thinks.  I expect that I will end up with a mixed system using some barrels for potable water and some for other water.

In any case, I hope to set up a rain water collection system on my beach property.  The local water utility charges $50.00 a month as their base rate.  Since my house was washed away by Ike, I'm thinking that it would not take long for a 1000 square foot pole barn to pay for its self if I can collect the water to use when I visit.

Here are some pictures of the 2 barrels I have so far.

Would you drink out them?

[esc]

The other barrel:

[electronbaby]

I know the Blue HDPE containers will not be acceptable for potable water storage due to leaching of chemicals out of the plastic. The clear/white one may be safe. I would do some further research however.

[GeeMac]

Get a few more barrels. Collect as much water as you can and sell it to your neighbors for $35.00 a month.  )

[mbohuntr]

Check out a soft drink plant like Pepsi, I've seen people sell stacks of those labled "syrup"

[dnix71]

NO              NO             NO

You shouldn't even have any barrels that have been used to transport ANY hazardous material, unless the drum has been triple rinsed and labelled as such. A brand new FDA approved drum is only about $50.

An empty olive oil drum would be fine.

Using rain water for drinking is also a questionable practice, unless you filter it. Bathing, washing clothes and toilet flushing would be acceptable uses. If you are going to drink it, brush your teeth with it or cook with it, you should get it from a reputable source. The local water utility in Fort Lauderdale used to actually encourage people to bring gallon jugs to a tap in front of the plant and help yourself. They thought it was stupid to pay for bottled water, when tap water was so tightly regulated by the Feds.

Unless the drums have been damaged, they should have been sent back for reuse. When we bought solvent for press wash, we had to fight to return the drums because it cost the sender, but we didn't want to be stuck with finding a way to legally dispose of the drums. Even empty drums that have not been triple rinsed were still considered to have the same hazard class as a full drum and transporting the empty required a license and paperwork.

Cutting the top AND bottom off is the minimum required by the local waste hauler.

[richhagen]

I don't know about the water storage in those type of drums.  I used 20L olive containers, made from hdpe to grow tomatoes, peppers and such on my flat roof last summer.  So far I still have 10 fingers and 10 toes, but time will tell.  I have seen systems which collect rain water from roof area for various purposes, including drinking water.  I would recommend, filtering and or treating the water between the collection barrel and the point of use if used for human consumption.  Some type of filtering to remove heavy metals, chemicals and biological material from the water before it goes into someones mouth.  Rich

[kurt]

find your nearest coke or Pepsi bottling plant they sell there used syrup barrels for not much money lots of people buy them for rain barrels you do not want to drink out of barrels that had any kind of chemicals in them....

[altosack]

Hello Roy,

Is the HDPE not acceptable because of the blue dye ?  I'm asking because I used to be an engineer for a flexible pipe company that used several different plastics for the inner liner, but the only one that was acceptable for potable water was HDPE (black).

In general, for food or water containers, I would trust HDPE the most (as long as the temperature is below 60C/140F), with PP (Polypropylene) being second, and better for high temperatures.

Dave

[dnix71]

There are used whiskey barrels for sale. Empty of course. That would give your drinking water a special flavor.

http://www.kentuckybarrels.com/RainBarrels.html

I think the alcohol would sterilize them pretty well.

[mgtd]

I'd be very leery of drinking or anything related to consumption from those barrels.  I had bought a few black poly barrels with the thought in mind of collecting rainwater. for garden and watering chickens.  After considering that I didn't know what originally came in them, I sealed them good and used them for floats on my dock in the pond.

My local Pepsi distribution plant always has a few, one use, 55 gallon syrup drums (food grade) and I got them for free and use 5 for rainwater collection.  They don't even bottle at this plant--just distribute-- the warehouse guy just keeps a few on hand for locals who want them.  Much safer.

[esc]

If I do use any of them for drinking water an additional filtration system (filter + activated carbon + UV light)  (and maybe reverse osmosis too) would be used.

I'm still thinking that the white ones, with soap in them could be used for drinking water.  But I'm not going to do anything rash.

Even if I don't use them for drinking, I could still use the water they hold for lots of other things.  Even when I was hooked up to the local water company, I would never drink their water anyway.  More often than not they had a "boil first" order in place.  So it won't be much different even if my water is stored in a bunch of toxic barrels.  

[esc]

These are single use barrels and they are clearly labeled as too contents.  Like I said, I'm going to take the labels to my local Toxicologist and ask him.  They also have stickers which rate their biological hazard (of the soap barrels) as a 0.  But they do recommend you flush your eyes if you get soap in them.

[esc]

BTW, I'm thinking about using 10 to 20 barrels to hold the collected rainwater.

[esc]

Nice.  But at $170.00 each they are a little out side of my project budget, which is currently $0.00.

[jonas302]

even if you find them unsuitable you could put them or craigslist around here they are worth 30each sell enough you can buy the ones you need

oh or a half barrel vawt

wvo settling drum hmm the ideas just keep coming

[scottsAI]

esc,

Rainwater can be very safe to drink.

Where to start: http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/iwt/Rainwater.asp

Read this book: http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/RainwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf

Good read about the Effects of first flush on rainwater quality:

http://www.irc.nl/page/29189

Now you will know more than most everybody about rainwater.

Spread sheet for calculating the size of storage container based on monthly rain fall and usage can be found, if not ask me.

Have fun,

Scott.

[MattM]

I've got a 10 gallon drinking water container in the r/v that looks like its made from that blue HDPE material.  How do I know which is what?  I'm sure its safe to use.  And another thing that is nice is it doesn't leach that crappy plastic taste into the water like the all too common 'made in chine' thermos containers.

[esc]

Actually, I've already read the "Rain Water Harvesting Manual".  It has a lot of useful information.  It also had info on property tax exemptions.  When I called the Galveston  County Appraisal District, no one there had any idea what I was talking about.  So will be a fight if I want to pursue it.

[wooferhound]

I wouldn't drink or water my garden with water from the barrels that had chemicals in them.

Your toxicologist may turn in your company for having hazardis material on their property.

However these kind of barrels make the best PVC style props because they are a large diameter and plenty thick.

I liked the idea stated above about making a big Savinous VAWT out of them.

[GaryGary]

Hi,

Quite a bit of practical info on rain water harvesting for both potable and non-potable systems here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Water/Water.htm

Gary

[scottsAI]

Esc,

Good, now can talk about important things.

Sisters live in NM, rain fall is same as MI.

Yet, they need 5,000 gal tank to make it through the 5 months with little rain.

Here in MI 2,500 gal tank is fine, maybe little smaller. Rain more consistent.

To sterilize the Rainwater UV and Ozone are the better choices.

UV bulb can fail and must be replaced each year, not a cheap bulb.

Ozone is more expensive up front, yet should work for years, as in decades.

UV draws 3x the power of Ozone, further enhancing the Ozone choice.

Ozone can be bubbled into a tank sterilizing the whole tank, not possible with UV.

Other uses for Ozone. Only needs to be on while its raining.

One big tank or many little ones?

I considered 55gal tanks, then realized how many needed 45 for 2500 gal, 90 for 5,000 gal. Realized the fittings would cost more than the one big tank! Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2500-Gallon-Poly-Fresh-Water-ONLY-Storage-Tank-Tanks_W0QQitemZ120313239938QQcmdZ
ViewItemQQptZBI_Farm_Supplies?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

$865. Do not like to put all my eggs into one basket, so will use two 2500 gal for sisters house. Also cheaper than one 5,000 gal tank? Go figure.

First flush.

Not found a device I like, either cost or design. Attempted my own design, not like them either. Have long list of requirements. Still looking/designing.

Self cleaning gutters.

Found ALL self cleaning gutters do NOT work, what a disappointment. (they can have limited success under certain conditions). Designed my own very happy with (as a design).

Hope this was helpful.

Have fun,

Scott.

[esc]

I'll start last first:

Self cleaning gutters, since there are no trees within 100 yards or more it won't be an issue for me.

First flush:  I plan to use a passive system with a section of PVC pipe with a small hole in the bottom, that has to be filled before any water will enter the storage tanks.  I will put a screen where the water dumps from the gutters into the storage system, to keep out things that are big enough to plug the hole, from getting in.

Storage Capacity:  This is for weekend use only so the requirements are pretty low.  When I was hooked up the to water company, we typically used about 3000 gallons a year.  We also have very steady rains throughout the year with about 50" total and no months that average less than 2.  Finally, my back up plan, my neighbor plans to get hooked back up to the public water supply (when it is available) and he will let me top off from that if I need to.  

Plumbing and fittings expense:  Since these barrels have 2 openings on top, I plan to use one to fill and the other as a siphon, with a piece of pvc inserted 80-90% of the way to the bottom.  But this plan may change.

If I use the white barrels I will have to paint them so that they are opaque.  I also plan to place the barrels about 8' off the ground so that I can use a gravity feed system for most uses.

Finally sterilizing the water:  This is the biggest issue with a rain water system.  I will probably start without any sterilization and just not drink the water.  Once everything else is up and running I'll see what my budget will allow.

One more thing I like about using barrels is that I can fill one here and bring it down with me for drinking water.

[A6D9]

I'd drink out fo the soap ones...but then again  i drink out fo the brook in my back yard no problem...

the others i woudl be weary of..but I'm sure you can find plenty of uses for them.

allot of canoers love those barels as they need watertight stuff to keep the gear afloat in a flip.

if you sell them  you could make a good bit of $$ for other projects.

[Capt Slog]

Others have mentioned chemicals leaching out of the plastic into the water.  

This does happen, and the chemicals in question tend to be phthalates which are their to plasticise the plastic, basically they keep it supple.  However, these phthalates even manage to leach out of drinking water bottles (and those that once contained fizzy pop).

In my last job, I tested ground water.  This was usually delivered to us in whatever bottle the sampler hand to hand, often the lemonade bottle he'd had with his lunch!  Plasticisers were always present.  They were so much 'always there' that I used them to check the function if the instrument.

.

[scottsAI]

Sounds good.

Why neighbor reconnecting to water? not wanting to mess with rainwater?

Forgot to mention Roof must be metal or title to use for drinking.

don't want the tar in the drinking water.

3. ,000 / yr or 60 gal a weekend, not bad.
   
55. gal water drum weights 500lb! want to lug that around?
    
    

Just for a weekend bottled water needs are small. Maybe 10 gal of the 60?

Rainwater for all but drinking. Wash dishes with rainwater, rinse with bottled, things like that you can figure out!-)

RV water pumps are cheap decent flow for showers. (I use a RV pump as backup well water pump during power outages)

Sounds like you have things well covered.

Have fun,

Scott.

[dnix71]

If you live on the coast, even with no trees, you will have sea gull poop on your roof.

If I was going to collect rain for drinking I would want something birds counldn't land on.

[esc]

Bird droppings are a fact of life with ANY rainwater collection system.  I certainly will try to discourage their roosting, but there is nothing you do about the occasional "dive bombing".  That is why it is important to have a system which discards the first water when it rains.   That way, anything that is likely to get washed off will have done so, before the additional water goes into storage.

[esc]

Good blades?  Really?  I would have thought that they would be too irregular and soft to make decent HAWT blades.

A VAWT might be interesting, but I want real power, not just a big contraption taking up half my yard.

[esc]

Neighbor would rather pay, thats right.

I'm planning on a galvanized corrugated steel roof with a peak on one side so it will only need one gutter.

Yes it will be heavy...but it will ride in the back of a pickup pretty east.  Then I'll use a come along to lift it out of the truck and up on to the "Water deck"  where the barrels will live.

Eventually, when I get a travel trailer to put out there it will probably have a built in tank and pump that I can hook up.

[GlutealCleft]

If you want some safe barrels for free, visit a dialysis center.  They get dialysate, which is essentially minerals in vinegar, in big drums like that.

Cleaning them to medical standards is more expensive than buying a new drum, so they're  usually willing to give you however many you want.  When you open them, they'll smell like vinegar - no surprise.  Rinse them, let them air out, and you're ready to go.

[Jeff]

I get all of them I could! You may not be able to store drinking water in them, but they are great for storing hot water for extra heat in the winter, or burying in the ground for storing cold water for "geo-thermal" air-conditioning in the summer. Any extra, I'd split them in two length-wise, and make savonious windmils from them! I'll take 2 dozen!

PS: these are all for use for people with $0 income, and getting NO help from County, State, or Government agencies!

[SteveCH]

I have a couple of the white barrels, got them for $5 each from our local water dept. Great bargain. You are right to cover/paint them, algae will grow in the transluscent ones, such as the white ones. Yes on the metal roof, it will collect far less gunk and detritus than most. You'll still need the initial flush to get rid of dust and etc. Or you can buy/build a sand trap type filter [they are several hundred bucks so you may be inspired to build one] which will work great but must be serviced [replace or clean the sand] as the dirt/dust build up. [Not regular sand; you can get the right stuff at a store which sells supplies/gizmos for pool and hot tub filter units, few bucks per 25 lb. bag.--too large a grain and it doesn't filter enough; too small a grain and the water will back up and not go thru fast enough, rain will cause an overflow. I tried to save money here and it was a royal pain.]

Instead of a come-along or whatever to lift the filled barrel from your truck, might wanna consider a cheap 12 v. pump and length of hose. If you drop that barrel, full, it can be a danger and a hassle in any case [voice of experience here, been messing with this sort of thing for 30+ yr.]. Also, likely don't even need to point this out, but be very, very sure you have that barrel secured for the drive when it's full. I finally took some lumber and build a small, simple, easy to remove and store deal that holds the barrel in place at its base, then rope to secure it up at the level of the truck bed. You can lose a tail gate or rear cab window when a sharp turn or bad bump in the road cause that barrel to let go.

I keep a couple of the white barrels in my greenhouse as a backup water source since now and then our water line from the cistern will freeze up for a couple days. Probably not your problem. But I have to clean out the barrels every couple yr. because no matter how careful we are, algae and dust and a few insects and etc. will get in them. I carry them outdoors and slosh a little bleach in them, rinse them out well.

We use water from a cistern, reverse osmosis for keeping it honest. The filters for the r.o. unit run $50 and make it a year in our situation.