Author Topic: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?  (Read 20079 times)

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Number21

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Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« on: December 04, 2008, 07:33:49 AM »
I'm thinking about going entirely off grid. Being in Oregon, I've got PLENTY of relatively clean water going down my gutters and directly into the sewer. I'm considering getting some large tanks to hold the rain water, treat it with a small amount of chlorine and/or UV light, and then through a particulate and charcoal filter.


My main concern - is it SAFE to drink water that comes off an asphalt shingle roof? Wasn't that long ago that I patched a few spots with a big bucket of tar...doesn't seem like the best thing to be drinking from...

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 07:33:49 AM by (unknown) »

imsmooth

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 05:22:35 AM »
I know water is reclaimed for irrigation, but I think the potential source and variety of contaminents make it unsafe to drink.  Microbials are not your only concern.  You also have to deal with particulates, trace heavy metals and organic/inorganic compounds.  UV and some chlorine would not be sufficient.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 05:22:35 AM by imsmooth »

GeeMac

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 05:47:23 AM »
Can any part of asphalt be disolved in water?  I cannot find anything on the net to answer that question.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 05:47:23 AM by GeeMac »

esc

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 06:49:46 AM »
This will answer all your questions:


http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/RainwaterHarvestingManual_3rdedition.pdf


IIRC, asphalt shingles are fine, they just reduce the amount of water you can collect.  


But it is important to have a "first flush" system which discards the first several gallons (how many depends on the size of the roof) so that junk on your roof has a chance to wash off before going in to your tank.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 06:49:46 AM by esc »

zeusmorg

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 07:58:07 AM »
 If you are already on a municipal water system, you will probably find that the cost of building a suitable rainwater catchment system to be cost prohibitive.


 The total cost of your storage system, filtration and treatment will be high initially and have a long payback time.


 The rule of thumb for sizing a first flush system is usually 2 gallons per 100 sq.ft of roof area. The amount of rainwater needed to clean roof debris goes up with things like more dry days, overhanging trees, amount of dust, and other contaminants trapped

by the roofing materials used.


 Asphalt shingles are not the preferred roof coating for a catchment system, and usually not recommended for rainwater collection due to possible water contamination by the materials themselves and the higher content of trapped particles by the roofing material itself.


 Also a rainwater system does require a lot of maintenance, things such as cleaning filters and traps on a regular basis.


 You may wish to consider these factors before converting away from a municipal source.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 07:58:07 AM by zeusmorg »

GaryGary

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 08:33:00 AM »
Hi,


This is a quote from the Texas Manual On Rainwater Harvesting:


"Composite or asphalt shingle

Due to leaching of toxins, composite

shingles are not appropriate for potable

systems, but can be used to collect water

for irrigation. Composite roofs have an

approximated 10-percent loss due to

inefficient flow or evaporation (Radlet

and Radlet, 2004)."


You can download the whole thing, and a lot of other practical rain water harvesting stuff here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Water/Water.htm


You might think about adding or modifying a small area of the roof for potable water, and have a separate collection system for this part?  Use the rest of the roof for non-potable water uses.  It should not take much roof area for the potable water part.


Gary

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 08:33:00 AM by GaryGary »

esc

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2008, 09:01:01 AM »
So it looks like I didn't remember entirely correctly.  But that is the same manual I recommended.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 09:01:01 AM by esc »

dnix71

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 08:27:52 PM »
Maybe you could lay down a high quality plastic sheet on a section of roof and collect the water that comes off of that. Start at the crown and go to the drip edge. use that water to drink. On the uncovered roof area you could collect water for non-potable uses like flushing toilets or irrigation.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 08:27:52 PM by dnix71 »

scottsAI

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2008, 08:43:06 PM »
Number21,


Most of the main points have been covered.


Tanks not as costly as they were. 2500 gal is $865+ship.

Sometimes a local source can be found.

Builditsolar has method to build cheap tank.

Find a calculator for roof size vs rain fall each month to determine tank size.


Consider using Ozone to sterilize the water.

Ozone uses 1/3 the power and works for decades.

UV bulb fails and requires yearly replacement, not a cheap bulb.

Ozone equipment is more costly, considering UV bulb cost, long term it's cheaper.

Ozone cab be bubbled in a tank sterilizing the whole thing, cant do with UV.

I prefer not to use chemicals. Other uses for Ozone.


For new construction Rainwater often is cheaper then drilling a well.

Locally well cost $8k, vs about $3k for rainwater. Depends how techky you get! And how much you can do.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 08:43:06 PM by scottsAI »

strider3700

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 12:28:20 AM »
My drinking water comes from a surface spring which I routinely see frogs swimming in.  I bring it down the mountain in a 1" line that then goes into a 2500 gallon tank, from there it gravity feeds into a roughly 300 gallon tank that I circulate 24 hours a day with a small 15 watt pump.  That pump loop has an attachment to an ozone generator and the suction of the water going by draws the ozone in and it bubbles into the tank.  from there the water goes into a pressure tank then through a charcoal filter and then into the house.  4 years of drinking it and no issues to report.  I just chlorine shock the large tank every 2 years or so and after giving it 24 hours to sit I let the shocked water get into the rest of the system.  


Ozone seems to be working great but I haven't had the water officially tested to verify that all is good.  


I will complain that the ozone bubbles out of the small tank and makes the building the system is in stink.  It's pretty hard on the lungs if I don't air it out before going in there.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 12:28:20 AM by strider3700 »

spinningmagnets

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Re: Collecting water, Ozone sterilization?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 08:56:59 AM »
I read a university report about a year ago (safe water options for 3rd world), and it had a lot of technical detail. scottsAI convinced me ozone was a top option for consideration.


The thing I remember is that ozone is very reactive. This instability and desire to react with everything it touches is what allows it to kill biologicals (algae, bacteria, viruses, parasites, etc).


However this characteristic also makes it dangerous to drink freshly ozonated water. Waiting 30 minutes from the stop of ozonation until drinking provides more than enough safety margin (10 minutes would be an absolute minimum).


The charcoal end-filter described in one of the posts would not only absorb random chemicals as its designed to, it would also provide a small time-delay.


I have no hands-on, or drinking experience with ozone.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 08:56:59 AM by spinningmagnets »

SteveCH

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2008, 11:05:41 AM »
We used rainwater/snowmelt roof catchment for many yr. until we put in a well last yr. At the beginning, we had a cedar shingle roof, later went with a steel roof. The steel was far, far superior in water collection and cleanliness. The wood, as with asphalt and has been already pointed out, has many crevaces and rough areas that collect pollen and dust that then come off with the water. The steel also collects these things, of course, but it is washed clean relatively quickly. Now, steel roof is more expensive than asphalt, by a large factor. However, for water collection, it is quite superior. And once the runoff is clean, with steel or other material [I've read that tile is good, as is slate], the remainder of the water collected is clear and pretty clean.


We collected ours via gutter downspouts plumbed into a cistern I built from cinder block set on a concrete pad and lined with a plastic cystern liner [these come in potable materials if ordered that way]. Inside dimensions are roughly 9 ft. square by 5 1/2 ft. tall. This gives us 2250 gal. of water storage, which for us is several months worth as we don't have a flush toilet.


You will find that the rain collected is soft, which is nice. You will need to design or buy a way to pre-filter the runoff to keep out leaves, pine needles, insects, dirt, etc. that all collect in the gutters or wash off the roof. A screen of hardware cloth at the downspouts will keep out the larger stuff, though you need to keep those screens cleared or they'll cause a backup. I cut them from hdwr cloth, free basically. But you will need to also filter the runoff for pollen and dust and etc. somehow.


A friend of mine lives in N. M. in an area where many people use catchment/cistern systems. Wells produce water that is so hard and so nasty they don't want to use it. Many of them simply drain the cistern once a yr. or so, get inside and clean them out rather than filter. Too much maintenance for me, plus you are not collecting water and dumping what you have during that process. But it works for them.


The health aspects I've come up with include the bacteria etc. you will get off the roof [think bird dookey and dead insects and so on]. Then, the water will be sitting in the tank a while, where bacteria can grow. You can treat the water with chlorine or something like that. Of course, you'll have the taste/health issue from that. We put in a counter-top filter, carbon canister, and it worked great. We also had an inline filter prior to the carbon filter, one of those you can get at any hardware store and use those replaceable filters that cost $4 apiece to make sure we took out any tiny particulate material. Also, the inlet line from the cistern can be suspended a few inches or a foot off the floor of the tank to keep the major detritus from getting into the pipe. We have a screen and footvalve setup on our line also, as detritus is death [or earlier death] to household pressure pumps.


In any case, in 18 yr. or so I cleaned out my cistern maybe three times.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 11:05:41 AM by SteveCH »

tanner0441

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 03:58:28 PM »
Hi

Anyone collecting rain water for drinking water. Read the book "The Blue Death" It is a history of the water purification process in the US and UK it is a good read, and might make you prefer your collected water rather than the utility water.  I have put a seperate tap for drinking with ceramic micro filtration and carbon block filters.


In both the US and UK it is amazing how many sewerage plants outfall into a river upstream from where it is taken back out for processing for drinking, and chlorine has been linked to CA stomach and colon, something about it breaking down into chloroform.


Anyone want the ISBN number email me I will have to look my copy out steadmanbg(at)aol.com.


Brian

« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 03:58:28 PM by tanner0441 »

scottsAI

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Re: Collecting water, Ozone sterilization?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 12:16:33 AM »
Spinningmagnets,


Rainwater after filtering is treated with ozone, then added to the main tank. Doing it this way also limits the time the sterilizer must be on. Hopefully weeks delay before use. Design wise I prefer two tanks, use one, add to other. Along the lines of don't put all your eggs in one basket...


Other designs batch process the rainwater...


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 12:16:33 AM by scottsAI »

wa7axt

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Re: Collecting water from asphalt shingle roof?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2009, 09:57:49 AM »
I Have spent the last 2 and a half years researching rain water harvesting and have 3 slow sand filters and one first flush diverter in operation. One of my websites is here: http://www.shared-source-initiative.com/biosand_filter/biosand.html

The other (my homepage) is a summary and has a faq page. I have found some papers written about composition roofing and water harvesting ( they are hard to find). Harvesting potable water from a composition roof is possible but one must be very careful. My references and info are best taken from my websites.  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 09:57:49 AM by wa7axt »