Author Topic: Wind Generator in Malaysia.  (Read 5973 times)

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seanchan00

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Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« on: February 26, 2006, 02:11:56 AM »
Hi Seniors and Mentors,


Date: 20/12/2005

My 8.6 ft dual rotor genny has been up atop the 52 ft tower since 20-11-2005 and it is generating just a little short of my daily needs. I have been very involved in ironing out many (off times me-self generated) bugs to get it working as I read you guys seem to have done so effortlessly. Now thinking back I am quite amused how dumb I can be at times.


The first mistake I made, I raise it with the Shorting switch turned on and it took me 4 good days of seeing the genny not moving in gentle winds up to 5 mph before I thought of it. Even posted in the board for help. My first thought was that my 8.6 ft blades are not matched to my 12 inch 24 mags genny since all those in the board are using 10 to 12 ft blades.


Second blunder I forgot to balance the blades completely and had to lower the tower to balance it both for static and dynamic imbalance since one blade tip was too far forward compared to the other two. I had to use 200 grams plus three ½ inch nuts on one allthread to balance the static imbalance. Now it starts easily and pick up speed when the wind catches it.

Third after it has been balanced and more responsive to wind energy I found it was not charging the batteries even though there was increasing voltage with increasing wind speed measured just after the rectifiers going up to 15 V. Once I even saw the ammeter showing 6 amps. I finally traced it after a week of agonizing to the sets of diodes I put just before my 2 batteries to prevent communication between them. With the added diode preload, this low wind period was just not enough to charge the batteries. Now it has been removed and the 6 - 35 amp rectifiers divided into 2 sets of 3 going into the Batteries separately it is finally charging but not equally. The battery that is connected with shorter wire (1/2 the length of the other and half the thickness) seems to get more charge.


The northeast monsoon has finally started to show its dominance and I will be slowly trying to adjust the supply wire resistance by varying the length till both batteries gets more even power supply. If any one has a short cut to get this done I would really appreciate suggestions rather than doing it empirically (trial and error). I am still waiting to see the blades spin till blur so no hope of seeing furling anytime soon. Maybe when the monsoon really rears its ugly head one day. Also I seemed to have over killed my measures to control high wind damage with my mechanical brake system activated by the furling tail. I really don't see the need for it now I realize being inland my area wind speed is actually just marginally enough.  

Date: 23/02/06


Spent the last 2 months trying to get enough power out of my wind system. I was convinced I had stall and posted on the board and received sensible help. Finally shorted the wire length back to original, as Flux suggested and found there was no stall at all. All my problems are due to poor turbulent wind conditions in my farm. Cut down some offending trees and now the monsoon is stronger I am getting barely enough power for my daily requirements. I am making a set of 6 feet blades to harvest more power in low and sporadic winds. Going back to the board to read up on blade design for higher speed in low 5mph winds. I understand at the same wind speed, a bigger diameter propeller will have stronger torque but lower rpm. If so I wonder how best to solve this as I need both torque and rotor speed (rpm) in poor winds. I intend to close the air gap to get more flux and more power with the 12 feet prop. Anyway here are my long due photos of my wind system.





There I stand proudly with my coming frustrations for 3 months. The branches on the left are from the durian tree I cut down in Jan 06 to improve the wind available. It is blocking the wind from northeast direction





You can see on the lower part of the back magnet rotor my mechanical brake which will come to play when it furls fully. The stronger the wind the harder the brake force applied by the furling tail. A spring between the two plunger rods releases the brake pad contact when the tail unfurls. The brake pad is made from tire thread samples, which is flat. Looking back I wouldn't bother with it. The wire coiling round the 1.5" pipe prevents the whole alternator from falling off when I lower it. At the juncture with the 3' pipe the inner hole was made too small and after several futile attempts to push through normal cables I had to change them to the same dual magnetic wires I wound the coils with so they are small enough to pass through. Plenty of taping as you can see to protect them against the inner surface of the pipe hole.





My Tail is plastic which should be more durable in tropical wet climate. Also note the lightning rod.





That's Tan Boon Hwa, my carpenter friend who made my blades for me. He is working the chain block to raise the wind generator. My version of tilt up tower with the main support provided by the center 4" thick pipe.





The slight bend on the upper limb is not the result of the weight of the windgen. When the tower was installed the lower limb was over weighted with 200+ kg of counter weight and we just could not pull the top down. This bend was inflicted when 4 of us pulled too hard. Finally the backhoe drain digger had to raise the lower end to bring it down. Also we cut off 100 kg counterweight.





Another view of the tower. So sorry guys, I just could not get my computer to turn the photo right side up.





A closer look of the chain block and the counter weight at the lower end to reduce the force required to raise the tower.





The footing on a concrete base 2' by 2' and 4'deep. Notice the bracket on the left of the photo, which stops the tower at the vertical position. A 1.5" diameter pin at the level of the box just above the footing locks down the tower when erect. The pin threads both 4" pipes and at the box end there is a hole in the pin to insert a lock to lock the tower. The box is to protect the lock from being cut or forced open





Here's the full 53 feet height of tower with all the 3/8" guy wires on.





Side view of my tower. The costs of second hand 4 inch and 3 inch pipes cost only about 120/= US dollar. They were made for gas pipes and real solid and heavy.





Counter weights with scrap iron. Note the round pin at the level of the metal box locking the tower down.





There it stands proudly in the sky and spinning quite fast but still not fast enough to show blurring of the blade tips. This may be the only wind generator raised in Malaysia.





Here it is fast enough to be charging, just a few amps. Wind is at best sporadic and often changing directions with gusts of stronger winds when the amps go up then soon drops back. I must be one of the slowest to finish a simple wind generator system. Started in early June 2005 and finally raise the system in end November 2005. Then it took a good 3 months till today when I am getting something workable from it. Still it has been a very enjoyable and gratifying experience plus learning curve. When I read how Dan B and his friends finish their projects in a day or two I really feel real incompetent. My sincere thanks to Dan B for valuable guidance all the way, Flux for all my questions (off times stupid ones too) answered so thoroughly along the way, Ungrounded Lightning Rod for teaching me about static & dynamic balance of the blades and Nando for the test check list on the shunt regulator. Finally my thanks to all otherpower discussion board participants from whom I gleaned much information whether asking or answering.


SeanChan.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 02:11:56 AM by (unknown) »

willib

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 07:49:09 PM »
seanchan00

 what is the dia of your dual rotor?

how many poles ?

number of coils?

great pics..

must be nice not to have to deal with winter..
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 07:49:09 PM by willib »
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

zap

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 08:04:02 PM »
Very nice post SeanChan and excellent workmanship on everything.  You must be very proud and I'm sure you'll work out you low power problem.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 08:04:02 PM by zap »

coldspot

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 08:16:15 PM »
SeanChan-

Jun 2005 to just low power in Feb 2006

I'd say you are working hard, and also "getrdone".

I bought my first PM DC Motor about july 2005.

That one still isn't flying, did finish hub for it last week.

Your tilt up tower is great!

Makes  my little sat/Dish roof top mnt converted to

back yard mini tower look sad. (I got about 13-14')!

I also have and had bigger wishes and dreams.

But lack a place to play

Lucky enough to have girlfriend that

let me have a bedroom to use, no shop no garage.

Heck she now calls it my "Parts Room"1  LOL

Just glad to be able to play a bit at all.

But as she also now knows,

I like to be in front of one of my

computers to really play and work.

AnyWay Great things for wind Power in  Malaysia !!!!!!!!!

:)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 08:16:15 PM by coldspot »
$0.02

harrie

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 10:08:41 PM »
Hi Seanchan00. Great pictures, and its nice to see green leaves, and dry ground, Its 15 below zero here in Minnesota now.


I dont think you took too much time to build it, expecially being your first one, and Im sure it wont be your last, I think we all get hooked, and the nice thing about it like you said, all the guys on this site, that will take the time to help us beginers out.


Keep up the good work, and if you want to trade land, let me know! Ha.


Great fun harrie

« Last Edit: February 25, 2006, 10:08:41 PM by harrie »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2006, 12:53:48 AM »
Hi Willib,


It is 12 inches steel discs with 12 pcs 2"x1"x1/2" neodymium mags on each. Stator is made with 9 coils using dual strand AWG 15 magnetic wires. The alternater is almost a copy of Tim's wind Gen.


SeanChan.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 12:53:48 AM by seanchan00 »

richhagen

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2006, 01:52:43 AM »
SeanChan, that is a wonderful post and story.  Not only is the turbine and tower interesting, but, having never been to Malasia, I found the landscape and other aspects of the photos interesting.  Tools looked similar to some in my toolbox, except for the types of trees, It could have been a farm near where I am (Chicago).  Your turbine looks really nice.  I hadn't seen a furling brake like that attached to the tail before, so I'll be curious as to how it performs.  I wonder how much stress it will add to the rotor during braking and also the lateral force on the brake assembly during braking in high winds.  I read that you noted that looking back, you wouldn't have bothered with it, is that because you now feel it is not necessary?  Anyway, I really enjoyed reading and viewing your post.  Rich Hagen
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 01:52:43 AM by richhagen »
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Flux

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2006, 02:53:15 AM »
Great to see the pictures after all the discussion.  I think the larger blades will help you in the poor wind area. keep the air gap small and perhaps go up a little bit in tsr for the 12 ft prop. You will have no starting problems even if you go up to tsr8.  


Flux

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 02:53:15 AM by Flux »

DanB

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2006, 07:07:42 AM »
beautiful project Sean!  Thanks for posting such a neat story.


I expect a bit bigger might be good on the blades.  How many turns per coil and what was your measured cutin speed?  I think 12' would be a bit much - that's about twice teh swept area of an 8' machine - a big change!  For 12V machines the way I wind them, I think 12 of those magnets is just a bit on the light side for a 10' machine - they work...  but I've been getting better results with slightly bigger magnets.  So maybe try 10' diameter - I would think that 12 would be way too much though.  It's amazing to me how much 6" in radius can make in a machines performance - one I built a couple years ago to be 10' and it didnt cutin nicely in low winds.  I cut that down to 9' and it worked much better.  I expect yours will like something between 9 and 10' diameter.


Its very nice!

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 07:07:42 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

drdongle

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2006, 07:12:57 AM »
Nice looking machine, I hope that you get everything worked out, and that it exceeds your expectations. The tower looks especially well built what with all the flanges and bracing, did you weld it yourself? You even went to the effort to make a socket at the base for the tilt over section, nice.  
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 07:12:57 AM by drdongle »

Blastoff

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2006, 09:50:23 AM »
Outstanding wind gen!  Don't feel bad about taking so long to build.  I started mine about 2 months ago.  I can't work on it every day.  So a weekend here and an hour there, but I'll 'getrdone' this summer.

I love the pictures,  I think the board should code postings with them!  Anyway, keep up the great work down there.  I'm from Pennsylvania and not quite as cold as other states or Canada, I can't wait for warmer weather, great to see green in the pictures.

PS. Nice welding job!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 09:50:23 AM by Blastoff »

Experimental

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2006, 02:25:16 PM »
   Hi Seanchan,

   I sure congratulate you on a job, WELL DONE !!

  Really enjoyed the pictures, and like others mentioned, wish I could enjoy your weather, as it,s raining and chilly here -- snowed a day or two ago !!

   One thing I noted however, and thought I might mention as it may be helpfull !!

   In one picture, I noted the wind was comeing from about 90 degrees to your blades according to the ribbons on your lightning rod !!   My thoughts were, that either there may be a lot of resistance to turning  into the wind, or perhaps, the wind just wasen,t blowing hard enough to turn it !!??

My own mill, however, turns into the wind, with the slightest breeze long before the blades begin to turn -- was just thinking yours may be to tight to turn easily, and this may be a factor in the performance !!

   Hope this thought is helpfull and sure commend you on doing a very fine job on your installation-- wishing you good winds and sunny days, Bill H.......
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 02:25:16 PM by Experimental »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2006, 05:13:10 PM »
Hi Dan B,


I have 35 turns per coil as you advised. How do I measure cutin speed? Its way up there and I can only look at its prop speed and watch the ammeter at the same time from a distance. The wind is rarely from one direction, it seems to keep changing ever so often with gusts of strong blows now and then. I often see the ribbons going one way then next but the blades remain still. As the wind pick up it will be turning into the wind one direction then next, still prop stationary. Only when the wind is strong and remain in one direction long enough will the prop start. I suspect the same wind character is happening when the generator is charging. That may be why I get short peaks of amp reading instead of steady continuous charging.


I know to go up to 12 feet is a big step and I remember somewhere in my readings, as the blades get bigger the torque goes up but the rpm goes down at the same wind speed. Flux has suggested going up to TSR8 for a 12 footer. Won't that be possible to take the best of both worlds?


SeanChan :>)

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 05:13:10 PM by seanchan00 »

DanB

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2006, 07:36:17 PM »
Unless it furls very early I think a 12' blade will be too much for the stator which is wound with two strands of #15 wire.  Being that its a 12V system and youve wound with finer wire than I normally do I really think a 12' blade would run quite fast - I doubt the alternator would hold it back very well.   Maybe if you do like flux suggests and design it for a high TSR... but still, I think its going to want to produce more power than teh alternator is up to. I think you can probably assume the cutin speed is around 140 rpm.  I would not do larger than a 10' blade set on it - 9' or 9' 6" is what Id lean towards based upon my experience with our blades (yours are probably different - maybe better, maybe worse hard to say).  Using these magnets I find that our 10' blades dont cutin in winds as low as Id like and slightly smaller makes things better.  For higher voltage systems it seems like 10' blades work well with those magnets.  Rectifier losses are lots more signficant in 12V systems - so is line loss and I think smaller blades help get the speed.  Adding 1' to your current diameter would make a big difference in swept area - probably get you over stalling issues and I think it would be a good bet.  I'd try 9'6"... but again - different blades will behave differently.  6" in blade diameter can make a huge difference in how a wind turbine this size performs.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 07:36:17 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

domwild

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2006, 11:25:32 PM »
Sean,

Great pictures, good ideas. Keep up the good work!


Regards

« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 11:25:32 PM by domwild »

Waterfront

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2006, 04:07:26 AM »
Wow! Really Nice story!

Quite a nice generator you have there!!

« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 04:07:26 AM by Waterfront »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2006, 05:47:44 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to put up those great pictures and tell your story. It's a great looking machine.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 05:47:44 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2006, 06:22:07 AM »
Hi Rich,


You probably never saw such a brake because I "designed" it myself all the time assuming there will be strong winds to control. In reality the wind here is so poor I have never seen it threaten to furl. In fact, I face lower and lower battery charges and had to start the diesel charger too often. I even made two shunt regulators and they are never called for duty. If ever I see the barke in action I will fill you in as how it measures to the lateral forces you mentioned. Maybe with a bigger set of blades I may see the brake in action one windy day.


SeanChan.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 06:22:07 AM by seanchan00 »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2006, 06:30:41 AM »
Hi Experimental,


Mine too turns into the wind easily as the alternater sits on a set of bearings as shown here.


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/8/18/0340/28458


The main problem I face is sporadic and turbulent winds.


SeanChan.


 

« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 06:30:41 AM by seanchan00 »

Gary D

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2006, 07:36:18 AM »
 Beautifull work!! If they are flags, as experimental thought on the lightning rod, perhaps all you need to do is add a brass or heavy hard plastic washer between the tower pipe top and the alternator assembly. Dan has been doing this lately to keep the tower pipe from rubbing/ cutting thru where the wires drop. It serves as a bushing also. This might/should help your machine track the winds better. You should be very proud to have a working machine!!

 As for how long it took to build and get running, I recieved a mill from Dan B. (Otherpower)in January. I haven't gotten it in the wind yet! I have a few things to finish on my tower (one or two days tops), but haven't yet visited an electrically minded friend to help with an automated staged dump load circuit. I'd rather wait a few weeks and get things right than possibly overcharge a battery bank (expensive for me). Things progress in their own time, not always as fast as we would like... Happy wind harvesting!  Gary D.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 07:36:18 AM by Gary D »

Experimental

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2006, 11:18:17 AM »
   OK, well just noted the ribbons on your lightning rod -- and by the way -- that lightning rod is a real good idea !!    I lost a mill to lightning, three days after putting one up !!

   Don,t know what you are getting out of it for power, as you didn,t mention it on this post, but it sure looks good -- you have done a great job !!

  Bill H.....
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 11:18:17 AM by Experimental »

Flux

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2006, 02:10:53 AM »
Sean

To some extent I agree with Dan about the 12 ft blade, but I don't think he realises how bad your wind area is. Going from 8ft to 10 ft will only give you 50% extra power capture. That would under reasonable wind conditions make a dramatic difference on a machine that is stalling a bit and transform it.


You desperately need the extra area to capture more power in the light winds and there is no evidence that you are going to have high enough winds to bother about over heating in higher winds. In some ways i suppose it would be better to wait for the highest winds and see what they are like.


The question is whether you can get enough speed in the very low winds with the large prop rather than the stator holding it down in high winds.


I am not sure what grade magnets you have, but Dan's estimate of cut in is not going to be far wrong. My thought in this case is to go for a 12 ft prop at tsr8 and see how it works. If there are long periods when the output is below 12v in winds that worked before you will have to cut it back 6" and try again.


Starting at tsr 8 will still leave it quite reasonable even if you have to go back to 10 ft. It will certainly run faster if you do get any higher winds and be a little more noisy than we would normally choose (more like those commercial high speed noisy things). You should still be able to control it with furling as long as your offset is large enough. This to me would be the deciding factor whether to risk 12 ft or not. I have no idea what your offset is but for 12 ft it ought to be 6" . If less than 5.5" I wouldn't risk it unless you can increase the offset.


That alternator is unlikely to be able to stop a 12ft prop in a high wind with a brake Switch but a low resistor shunted across it would probably hold it in stall and as long as your furling works there is no problem. It would be awkward to find that it won't furl and you can't stop it.


Maybe you will never see those winds but with wind power it may happen one day.

Flux

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 02:10:53 AM by Flux »

chinsettawong

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2006, 08:32:46 AM »
Dear SeanChan:


Nice set up!  If I ever go to Malaysia, I would like to see your machine.


Wachara C.

Bangkok, Thailand

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 08:32:46 AM by chinsettawong »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2006, 04:24:39 PM »
Dear Wachara,


Most wellcome.


Sean.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 04:24:39 PM by seanchan00 »

seanchan00

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2006, 05:01:24 PM »
Flux,

Thanks for your input. My magnets are 2"x1"x1/2" neodymium mags purchased from Otherpower and I am sure they are top grade. My alternator is almost a copy of Tim's 10 foot machine except he uses dual strand AWG 14 and I used dual strand SWG 16 ½ which is 1.5mm diameter wire. The alternator off-set is less than 5.5". I assume you measure off-set from the centre of the alternator to the centre of the vertical shaft. The shaft maybe 6" but being angled upwards from the vertical and outwards the offset should be much less.  

I am leaning more towards what you advised as I can cut off if proven too long as you suggested. I made my blades using dimensions from Hugh Piggot's site and just projected the dimensions for a longer blade.


http://www.scoraigwind.com/selfblade/index.htm


TSR is given as 5.5, standard. Which parameters should I change to increase to TSR8?


Sean.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2006, 05:01:24 PM by seanchan00 »

Flux

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2006, 01:37:09 AM »
If you have Excel, go to Hugh's site and  find the blade design spreadsheet.

That will give you the dimensions for any tsr you want.


I wouldn't worry about the extreme dimensions at the root, choose a timber size that is convenient and will allow you to keep the proper dimensions  on the outer 60% and blend the middle in to suit your wood.


Change of tsr is not a case of scaling, widths and angles need to be changed.


Flux

« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 01:37:09 AM by Flux »

Frank06

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2006, 05:43:09 AM »
Yes, very nice work.  I like your tower idea - I've been thinking about using a tree in a similar fashion at my site and you've shown how it can be done.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 05:43:09 AM by Frank06 »

hvirtane

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Re: Wind Generator in Malaysia.
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2006, 12:14:44 PM »
A really nice machine and good pictures.


Do you have friends there, who are intending

to do something similar, after you made

the first?


- Hannu

« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 12:14:44 PM by hvirtane »