Treadmill motor / generator in the air at last !

[CmeBREW]

Hello again friends:

     I am still quite the beginner, but I finally got my 4 foot radius treadmill motor / generator in the air last week and it has been exceeding my expectations. I named it the PASSINGWIND 200X.(ha!) It is the first generator I've ever got up in the air to actually generate serious 12 volt battery charging, so it is very exciting time, and i've been learning alot. There is alot to this story with many many pictures, so i will have to do the second part tomorrow night. First of all, i made this generator out of the $9.95 treadmill motor that has been sold in the 'SURPLUS CENTER' catalog for years. It is rated 260vdc @5 amps and 5100 rpm. My calculations were correct and it makes a VERY nice 12 volt charging DC generator. The blades 'cut-in' at about 320-350 rpm , which is nice. These are also the first blades I have every made using a typical $2 2x4. I followed DAN B's blade making page. Tomorrow I will show photos of that. This is, of course, a DOWNWIND type generator i decided to make first because I love the look of them. The coils are such big Gauge that I decided to forget furling and risk going all out with the wind and see what happens. Theres no way it will burn out and the ball bearings are big and tough,,so the worst thing could happen is to throw a blade.




It starts up with about a 12mph small wind gust and still generators down to 10mph, i am quessing. (I don't have a wind meter yet) I have gotton over 200 watts during that extreme 50MPH+ wind day last week and another one this week. However, that was quite scary cause I had just put it up. There was Zero wind (as usual) the first day I put it up--and then the next day was a hurricaine like day! But it survived even without guy wires even though the 50mph gusts were banging the pole around. I realized then that I MUST have guy wires even if they don't look good!

This is one of those surplus treadmill motors. (I got a few of them. It is rated 5 amps. The label is worn on this one)


I painted the heavy, balanced fan spindle in this photo.

Notice the rubber washers for mounting to reduce vibration and noise. I also had to balance the blades (which was easy-I'll show tommorrow) with washers.



This is where I wired it up and secured the wires with a hose clamp. I welded a piece of 3/8"rod to the fitting. There are 3 wires 'cause I plan on putting up a 3-phase machine over the summer on this pole. The main pipe is 1.25" black pipe--and the pipe that fits nicely into the main pipe is the 1" black pipe. I got the whole main 22 foot high black pipe (a 12' and a 10') for only $5 at steel salvage yard. Can't beat that with a stick! The fitting is welded to a piece of 1/4" steel (which i hardened with my propane torch) , and then that is (epoxy)bolted to the generator. Also ,the threads of the fitting is epoxied to pole, and tightly screwed on with pipe wrenches. I had to break this loose once 'cause I forgot to put the stinkin 8ga. wires up thru the hole of the fitting! Boy was that really on there! You can see the marks. Lastly, I greased the pole good with typical marine grease.

I hope I'm commenting on the right photo cause it gets confusing. I think this is the close up of the back side to show how I mounted everything. Simple staightforward yaw axis design. There are two big washers inbetween.It turns great in the wind directions.

This is a good picture of the hight of it. It is close to 23 feet in the air and about 8 feet above my roof line.

Here is another far away shot. The blades were actually spinning 800 rpm but my digital camera makes it look stopped. Nevertheless, I painted it the color of treebark so it would be less noticable. I like the color.

The power it produces goes up and down alot. It constantly goes up and down all day long since it is only alittle higher than my roof. On a decently windy day (15-20mph) I see 5 amps and more quite often. On a very gusty day like 30mph -50mph gusts, i've seen it go up to 14 amps at 15 volts! But the blades must of been going nearly 2000 rpm!! I'm not Totally sure- I'm still quite the beginner. Nevertheless, it has been one heck of an exciting venture!  

Much thanks to DAN B and friends and everyone here who was been helping me with all my many questions!    I'll do Part Two tomorrow night ,cause its late and i'm sleepy.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

The coils are such big Gauge that I decided to forget furling and risk going all out with the wind and see what happens. Theres no way it will burn out and the ball bearings are big and tough,,so the worst thing could happen is to throw a blade.

The insurance company may not like you if you throw a blade into your roof.  Hope you made the hub strong.

[hiker]

real cool..

can you here the gen when its makin power..

[CmeBREW]

Thanks Underground:

    I appreciate what you are saying. Actually, I would fix the roof myself if that happened since I built the house and roofed it myself. For me its easy- i have extra shingles. For others its not. But clearly, some of the things I am showing there are probably examples of what NOT to do. (for MOST people) Such as not furling. I now actually do not believe it was going 2000 rpm in a 60 MPH gust. Maybe 1500. The blades actually make somewhat of an airplane noise only during the worst gust and it actually slows the blades down surprisingly. You can barely hear it though in the normal noise of the severe wind gust, and i'm standing right under it. The rest of the time the blades are very quite. That also was surprising to me. I do always take safety into serious concideration. I use to work on roller coasters, and I've made a few personal machines. Also,I do live way out in the country with no houses nearby, and I have no kids. I am really just doing testing with this project to see what I can get away with- to see how severe winds affect things , including noise--In fact many things. This treadmill project is really just a series of testing to help me design the 500 watt alternator that i am beginning to make at this time. I guess I should have stated that more clearly. I am triing to design a serious downwind alternator. (possibly with some kind of furling) I actually do not encourage anyone to make an alternator without some kind of proper furling. Thanks for bringing that out to me Underground lighting rod.

[tecker]

That's a good orientation for that unit as it puts the armature play against the larger bearing race instead of pushing the armature into the brush side and it's smaller bearing . They are typically a little loose and the shafts could use some spacers on the shaft . The case bolts penetrate through into the motor so you might want to band it around the motor and use the case bolts as a safety instead of main mount bolts . The vibration gets to the fasteners eventually. Watch the brush temp and hold the current down to 5 amps and let the voltage rise behind a control . When the brushes heat up they dust up the commutator and give you some problems . If you run the brushes hot all the time they grind right down. Typically the brushes are good for 2000 hrs of duty so get another set or a couple more motors as backup the brushes are acommon size . Take a small gringing wheel carefully to the commutator spaces when you change the brushes  .

[tecker]

One other thing is watch the stress on the connections I'm still looking for a solid change for that internal connection I think a lug will work  well .They are cheap enough to be very good unit . They need some  mods to be good for the long run .

[sdscott]

Nice work, CmeBREW!  Don't see many down-wind Gens... yours look Pro. Cheers!

[wooferhound]

How do you deal with the wire twisting inside the pole as the genny follows the wind ?

Most people would NEVER attach the tower or mast to their house. The vibrations will pull everything apart . . .

[CmeBREW]

No. The motor is perfectly quite even when it is running as a motor or generator. The blades are the only thing that makes alittle noise in the high winds.

[alancorey]

Looks great.  Watch out that some microhydro enthusiast doesn't cut it down to get that thing you're using as a hub.  Looks like just what I'm looking for to put in my brook...

I wonder why there aren't more downwinders.  Ferguson/battleship gray, nice choice.

 Alan

[GerryS]

Great work.  So how often is it spinning at your house and that low height?  In other words, how often do you have the 10MPH winds to keep it spinning?  I have two treadmill motors that I want to do basically the exact same thing with.  One for a water alternator and one for wind.  My big question is:  How did you connect the prop to the treadmill motor?  That threaded end only sticks out an inch or so (I have the same motor I think).  Also how do you stop the wires from twisting and breaking off as it turns with the wind?

[hiker]

had my mill up for some time now--the wind normally only comes from two diffrant directions---havent had to untangle my wires yet..i think thats true with most locations...the mill never has made a 360 turn yet..just left to right....

[CmeBREW]

Hello Wooferhound:

    So far the wire twisting has not been an issue at all. Another surprise. I have been watching it during high winds and not even seen it make an entire revolution yet. I used 3 -8ga single strand wires with the tough plastic sheathing and the windmill actually will turn 10 complete revolutions from one end to the other. Which was very pleasantly surprising to me. I believe you will get more turns with single wires instead of encased wires. I have went up on the roof a few times now to check it, and it has always been right in the middle of the 10 revelutions. This downwind mill turns slower and more steady than a small upwind mill. So 2 or 3 second side bursts of wind do not really cause it to turn much like the fast response on a small upwind mill. So, I believe that is one good thing about it. I have never seen it turn violently. It seems to me that the wind returns back to it's general direction rather quickly--or basicly to that general direction.

Vibration is not too bad either. The motor is basically 'suspended' with rubber washers and o'rings. And the two mounting bolts (5/16" fine) are epoxied (5 min.)into the 3/16" body of the motor. It is very secure. I have yet to get an old black soft rubber car radiator hose to use around the main pole at the house mount braket. This will make it totally silent. I can barely hear it now with just a piece of scuffing pad inbetween. And I have vaulted ceilings and my bedroom is right underneath it. I welded up this angle steel bracket well, and it is lag bolted in 3 different studs in the end roof truse. It is secure, escpecially after I add the permanent guy wires. Right now I have some big rope holding it. Plenty of soft black rubber is the secret -and to not tighten it down too tight. Use Nylon nuts instead of normal nuts and lock washers. Also I put 100% silicon caulk on the threads for extra emotional comfort since i am somewhat paranoid. I will show a picture of the mounting bracket in about an hour. I am working on 'PASSINGWIND - Part 2'  right now.

[CmeBREW]

Hey GerryS,

  I am currently working on 'PART 2'. You will see in the photes how i mounted the rotor to the fan spindle and so on very shortly. -good questions ,Thanks

[nothing to lose]

Comments on wires and mounting etc..

My test tower is about 17' high and kinda nasty mounting, I been using it since last fall/winter steady with a kinda heavy genny setup.

The mounting of the tower, nothing but a couple pieces of plumbers straping and some woodscrews holding it vertical against a trailer house tipout. Tower is about 7 foot higher than trailer roof. No guy wires.

We had some very strong winds recently, nothing bad happened. Only thing I am even worried about here is that if it fell it would break my Jerry blades. No problems so far, and those winds I thought was going to take the trailer roof off!

Genny was flying and running fine, no furling.

As for wire twisting up, this is a turbulent setup, trailer and taller trees, lots of wind changes and I see the genny yawing different times when watching it. Sofar I never had to unwind it yet in many months. This one just has the wire hanging down off the genny on the backside of the tower so it does not get caught in the blades, otherwise just hanging loose in mid air and flopping about for about top 7 feet. It has not wound up tight around the tower pipe like I thought it would. Maybe 1 or 2 turns around the pipe sofar at most, and it undoes it itself.

This was just a kinda test setup for ocasional use when I put it there, but I have been using it I geuss since Sept. 2006 like this now steady.

The genny itself is low power, 1/4hp motor conversion, puts out high volts but about 0.30 amps, perfect for charging Ni-cad packs and other high volt low amp banks for me.

[GerryS]

Can't wait to see.  If you used the front part of the treadmill, is it a fan?  Then it just screws onto the shaft.  But I guess you've got to make sure that it doesn't spin in the direction of unscrewing but only screwing on.  driling holes through the fan disc to mount the hub to is easy enough. I'll be lookin to see how you do it!

[gotwind2]

Nice work CmeBREW

The anti-cogging idea is pretty innovative. I might try something similar on my dynohub, which cogs really badly, but generates 12v at only 60 rpm.

http://www.gotwind.org/Dynohub.htm

Also, what Scale/measurements did you use for your blades, are they a scaled down DanB design or your own?

Thanks and good luck.

Ben

[CmeBREW]

Hey Gotwind,  

yes, the blades are modified some. I impravised- used own judgement,etc. -Since these blades are so short, I had to go with steeper angles for purpose of start-up. I am still in need of learning more about tsr though. But I must be in the ball park, cause these blades are doing terrific. That airfoil shape is AMAZING. Even in a little 10 Mph tiny wind they take off like an airplane propeller. And to think just last fall I was experimenting with flat 1/4" plywood blades on that same motor.(Im emmbarrased now) I could only reach 10v in a hurricane wind! Anyway as I said in the post, 4 blades would've been even better for the winter months. The cold temperatures outside make the grease in the ball bearings alittle thicker, which means alittle more difficult starts -- and with only a 4 ft rotor , 4 blades would start up better on those 10mph cold wind days. Now that we just had two 50 degree F days, the 3-blades starts up even easier now since the grease in the bearings is warmer. On a warmer day it starts up many many times on a common 10mph low wind day.(since the breeze frequently stops and goes)

[CmeBREW]

I always forget to say stuff. sorry. I also know it would do better with 4 blades, because I did experimenting with a 'jump-start' wire to my positive bus bar. The generator is normally a motor, so when there was a good enough small wind (probabley 10mph) I would 'jump start' it for a few seconds, and it would take off, spin and generate for a minute or two and then stop again due to the breeze dropping off. Of course i,m not going to sit there and 'jump start' the thing all day to get alittle power--but clearly 4 blades would have been perfect and helped in braking in very high winds. 4 blades probably would have cost alittle power of the top end, but I doubt too much.  

[CmeBREW]

You really know your motors Tecker,

You are very right. One of the wires did fall off soon after I received it. (a design error no doubt by them) I simply soldered BOTH wires back. I wrapped the wire around the wire that comes from the brush and soldered it. No big deal- only took a few minutes since soldering is so easy. There was one more little design error I forgot to mention in my main post. The front of the motor is not secured well enough for high torque situations. (the whole front that houses the front bearing will actually 'shift' or move or turn one way or the other since there is no notch to hold it in place to the main body of the motor. This must be secured if one is going to use it as a windmill due to the extreme torque conditions.(especially if one intends to make the 'magnet cog reducer' in the front) What I did was tap a 3/16" bolt in the main housing up near the front to keep one of the two long bolts (that go thru the entire motor) from moving and thus the front could not move anymore in the counterclockwise direction. (thats the direction the 4' rotor turns)  Other than that, it makes a nice wind turbine.  

[JimmyZ1964]

That is a very cool windmill.I had also bought a 12v 260v 2.25hp treadmill motor and was wondering if yours will run a 12vdc 1.5-2 amp draw without any issues.What type of batteries and charge controller are you using?Very nice job you did.My goal is to use my generator in a remote location to run my beacon transmitter.

Jim,NY.

[gmhuskie]

where did you buy the motor at and if it is at a store do you know the part number?