Author Topic: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help  (Read 2008 times)

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1968jeepman

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Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« on: June 09, 2008, 01:37:29 AM »
I purchased an Aerolite 10kw 240v grid tie turbine.  I however have no grid to tie to!   My land is too from the nearest utility pole.  I have read the otherpower site many times, and know this question has been asked before, but can't seem to find it.  Can I go about generating electricity with this turbine with out having the grid.  How would I go about it?  I am not afraid to get my hands dirty, I am an industrial arts teacher, and this would be great for the kids to take in!


Any help would be great

Thanks For Your Time

« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 01:37:29 AM by (unknown) »

dbcollen

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 07:57:20 PM »
You could make your own "grid", Outback inverters are bidirectional, and don't mind power getting pushed back into them, they will just charge the batteries. There is however no control over the voltage they will charge the batteries too, so you will need a diversion load which you can trigger some SSRs (solid state relays) with the AUX relay built into the inverters.


To accomodate a 10K turbine you would need a Quad stack of VFX 3648 inverters, 2 X240 autotransformers, and a sizeable battery bank, and 4 2500-3000 watt loads.


If it were my setup I would use 4 seperate 240 volt AC load banks (because that is your input from the wind) each triggered by a 40 amp AC SSR, and set the Aux relays .2 volts apart, so you have a sequential trigger of the 4 loads. I have played around with making a mini grid here with my dual VFX3648s and a Soliel2000 grid tie inverter, they play well together.


Dustin

« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 07:57:20 PM by dbcollen »

wdyasq

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 09:28:05 PM »
Look at "Power-One" inverters/website.


Ron

« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 09:28:05 PM by wdyasq »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 01:51:47 PM »
Gird tie equipment is designed to avoid creating self-powered "islands" when the connection to the main grid is down.  This is exactly what you propose to do.


To use grid-tie equipment in its normal mode at both ends you'll need some extra equipment, such as a piece of rotating machinery, to provide a solid, constant-frequency, essentially constant voltage on your "grid" for the inverters to push power at and the charging mode to pull power from.  This will probably have to be able to handle including sourcing and sinking - considerably more power than either the inverter or the wind genny, to avoid going off-frequency and triggering the island detection of the grid-tie inverter, causing it to cut off.  So it's not a particularly practical approach.


If the inverter at the battery site has a configuration that allows you to set it to "electrocute the lineman" mode you can do it.  B-(  I'm unaware of a "make an island - I really mean it" mode.  But you could talk to the manufacturer of your inverter(s) to see if they provide it.


dbcollins seems to be saying that Outback inverters allow this.  (Or perhaps they will let you run the "house side" of the grid-connect out to the mill and transfer the excess power backfed from the genny into the battery.)  In your place I'd check with tech support at Outback on whether it's possible and how to configure it, before buying the equipment.  This is not something I'd expect them to make it easy to do, for fear of having it done when it's not intended and ending up with dead electrical workers and major product liability.

« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 01:51:47 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

1968jeepman

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2008, 02:41:18 PM »
Thanks for all the great info!!  Well I just have to ask,  what would be the most least expensive way to get the machine to put electricity into my batteries?  After looking at the outback inverters mentioned above, I am guessing I will need 4 of them at 2k a pop! I just want to be a self sufficient banjo playing mountain man.  I want to be off grid to put less of an impact on the enviroment,and also to keep from  lining to utility companies pockets.  I want the setup to be somewhat efficient , but the outbacks are stated at being 99%!  Do I dare ask , what can I do to have the cost low, and the efficiency even lower?  What alternatives are there?? I have a good source of batteries, I don't believe I will use much power, It will just be myself.  I just want to get things rolling, and upgrade down the road.  The land is vacant,and I am going to build and earth sheltered home, but want to get power and water in first.  So if I can get the power in with a smaller expense then I can build sooner.  Start small and work my way up in time.


Thanks Agin

« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 02:41:18 PM by 1968jeepman »

fungus

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2008, 02:46:19 PM »
Another option could be to bypass the grid-tie inverter totally and have a high voltage battery bank? .. Of course High voltage DC has its own problems with safety etc but it should certainly be doable .. most things with switching power supplies like computers would run off of high voltage DC directly ..
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 02:46:19 PM by fungus »

dbcollen

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 06:15:22 PM »
A 10Kw wind turbine is a very large piece of equipment, which is capable of producing a rather large amount of power. The tower alone to support a 20+ ft diameter turbine will cost a lot of money. If you want to be a simple banjo playing off grid mountain man, My suggestion would be to sell the 10KW turbine and buy or build something more appropriate. the outback inverters and associated necessary hardware would cost you $12-17K, but that is a small investment when dealing with something in the 10kw class and starting from scratch.


Our gracious hosts here on this board sell a 10ft kit which is really easy to build for a very reasonable cost. Just click on "Our Products" at the top of the page.


Dustin

« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 06:15:22 PM by dbcollen »

GWatPE

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2008, 03:00:39 AM »
Hi 1968jeepman,


If your location has good winds, then you will have to allow for the large diversion load.  Any inverter charger system of 10kW rating or more will work.  I have experience with Outback and SMA inverter chargers with a Skystream 3.7 windmill.  The battery will most likely be the most expensive component.  The battery will also be the weak link without 3 stage battery maintenance with a diversion load control.  My experience shows grid connect systems work best when connected to the main grid.  You may still be better off to sell this unit and install a system sized to your needs now and in the future.  This may be a solar/wind/battery/genset system.  My own system has solar/wind/battery/grid.  I could be off grid, but this would not allow me to sell surplus power.  In your case surplus power would have to be dissipated in a diversion load.  Any system of this size will have high capital costs for battery and interface inverter, tower etc.  


Gordon.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 03:00:39 AM by GWatPE »

scottsAI

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Re: Grid Tie 2 Off Grid Help
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2008, 09:51:11 AM »
1968jeepman,


The less you know the more it will cost you.

Stop buying until you know the whole system then buy. Will save you a lot of money.


Many ways to do what you want,

Just ask, each of us will tell you something different.


May I would suggest to start smaller, learn how this stuff works then go larger.


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 09:51:11 AM by scottsAI »