Author Topic: water pumps as test loads  (Read 1008 times)

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oneirondreamer

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water pumps as test loads
« on: October 10, 2005, 06:24:08 PM »
I am working on a new design VAWT and have been thinking about testing.   I have admired your truck bumper test rigs and am thinking of something along the same lines.   I guess that you test the gen side on the lathe.   I am worried that if I just use a generator to do the testing on my turbine, I might screw up the electrics (battery bank voltage ect) and not get good test results because of poor generator/turbine matching, so I am thinking why not just use a water pump, and a series of nozzels to try to get different loads?   This seems reasonalbe to me, and seems like it reduces the number of problems for me to work on? Any opinions,  btw I was think an auto water pump or perhaps a "drill powered" pump?   I am thinking that my first test model will be 6ft diameter.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2005, 06:24:08 PM by (unknown) »

maker of toys

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Re: water pumps as test loads
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2005, 02:15:05 AM »
while there's nothing inherently wrong with using a water pump as a dummy load, I have to say that it'll be hard to get any meaningful information from such a test.


. . . not that you couldn't get useful information, just that it would likely be more work and more expense than its worth.  (I pay the bills by building/repairing instrumentation packages for physics experiments. . . . )


after all, the goal of all the testing is to see (and tweak) how well the turbine matches the gen.


using relatively straightforward math (nothing that excel or a pocket calculator can't handle-- do a search. . .) you can make a fair guess at the maximum power your turbine could supply just based on its swept area and some SWAGs at wind-speed (the hosts of this forum sell an anemometer kit);  compare that to what the gen makes on the 'bench.'  Unless the two numbers are radically different, there's nothing to worry about. . . and if the gen works out to much higher power than the turbine can supply, you can save a certain amount of frustration and work by knowing that before you sink lots of money and man-hours into a undersized turbine.  ditto the contrapositive case-  you can save heartache by knowing that the gen is too small for your proposed turbine before you put it up and end up with stir-fry. <G>


I feel it's better to rig a prony brake (if there's lots of uncertainty) or, once you're convinced that the match is reasonable, (+/-25%? use a number that makes you happy)  just go ahead and risk the electronics by using your gen as the test load.  


you can minimize your risk profile by using a resistor pack in place of a battery bank and charge controller, but you won't get the same data as you would with the full system connected. On the other hand, glow coils or wirewound resistors will take a frightful pounding and come up smiling. . . however, again, you'll need some basic idea of how much power/volts/current you're likely to see in order to build up a 'realistic' resistor pack.

if you're getting the feeling that this 'testing' business is often an iterative process, you've been paying attention.  Welcome to the engineering profession!


  For some ideas do a search for 'load tester.' Jerry built one recently. (a little overkill for testing a wind genny . . .)  if you size the resistor bank to the genny specs, you can use it for a dump load later, and you won't be out any extra money.


just my 20 millidollars.  

#insert<std_disclaimer.h>

your mileage may vary.


-Dan


 

« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 02:15:05 AM by maker of toys »

oneirondreamer

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Re: water pumps as test loads
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2005, 04:21:55 PM »
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, and your wonderful signature line.  I guess I am not sure that I explained myself well, so perhaps I will give another go at it and see if you have another moment to comment.

      I have built a new VAWR that is quite different, and due to my intent to patent it, I am reluctant to discuss it in detail.   Suffice it to say it is different enought to be patentable, but I don't know if it is different enough to be commercial.   It seems to be able to exceed the wind speed, though in many ways it resembles a savonious, but I have yet to put together anything other than the simplest test systems.  One of the questions I have is at what speed/load will it produce it's peak power, if it were a pure savonious it would be simpler.    I had originaly seen it as more of a drag system, though I realized it is a hybrid, but I was supprised at my preliminary results and have had to rethink some of what is going on.  I am not sure at all now at what speed it will reach peak output, and thought that in that case a water pump might be a simpler solution to getting an accurate measurements of output, then I could look for a generator, or fabricate one of the ones from this site.   I guess the setup that you are recommending, the resistive load bank would work, but I am not as confidant in my ability with wires as I am with fluids.  So given that I am not sure what load it will produce would you reccomend an oversized generator with a variable load bank still, or would you consider the water pump?   Thanks for your time

Drew  
« Last Edit: October 11, 2005, 04:21:55 PM by oneirondreamer »

Gary D

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Re: water pumps as test loads
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2005, 07:51:32 PM »
If you have the unit built without a generator, and mounted a car waterpump or other pump on it...

 A true horsepower will lift 33,000lbs. one foot in a minute. Or 3,300 lbs. 10 ft in the same minute (or 330 lbs 100 ft.). That's not accounting for pipe friction losses. If you have an annemometer to check windspeed while the unit is running, possibly someone (you perhaps)could figure out what it would need as a generator. Works for fractions of a horsepower also... Gary D.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 07:51:32 PM by Gary D »