Author Topic: FURLING  (Read 1896 times)

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2windy

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FURLING
« on: April 25, 2006, 11:16:08 PM »
 I am testing my new mill and was wondering if it matters when the generator is hooked up with a load on it ,would it make my tail furl sooner? I've been testing my 10 foot machine without the genny on  {it's belt drive 3 to 1} I think that it should, but would like some input. I have a regular gravity tail furl setup.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 11:16:08 PM by (unknown) »

willib

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 07:54:41 PM »
force9 , now you see it now you dont eh ?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 07:54:41 PM by willib »
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 08:49:57 PM »
The furling occurs when the off-center force on the tail is enough to overcome its weight and raise it.  The off-center force on the tail matches the off-center force the other way from the turbine's drag.  (Otherwise it would be rotating in yaw rather than pointing roughly into the wind.)


The turbine will have more drag, and thus more off-center force, when the blades are loaded by a genny.  So the tail will rise and the mill will furl at a lower wind speed under load than when free-wheeling.  It will also spin more slowly for a given wind speed.  So unloading it hits you with a higher-RPM-at-furl double-whammy.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 08:49:57 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

2windy

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 09:13:23 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I will just be charging batteries, will that put enough of a load on the genny ?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 09:13:23 PM by 2windy »

Flux

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2006, 01:04:05 AM »
Yes it's Freddy Flintstones mppt.


Having allowed yourself a computer you might as well replace the solenoid and rheostat with a couple of mosfets to control the load.


At least a motorised variac would work, but I see no chance of a solenoid moving a rheostat in a controlled way.


The idea is sound and others are working on it, you just need to refine the mechanics of it.


I assume by cogging effect you mean load. This cogging thing seems to be much abused around here.


It would keep life simpler if we kept the term cogging to refer to the pull of a magnet on an iron circuit. Using it to refer to load a

or load pulsation from generated current confuses me and i

I suspect it confuses others.

Flux

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 01:04:05 AM by Flux »

Infinity Steel

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2006, 05:29:57 AM »
That makes more sense Flux- I just didn't know what to refer to it as.


I like playimng with concepts,but I'm just a newbie at electronic stuff. So let me see if I have this right then. Under ideal situations, rpms in a certain range give the best power signature...Less wind you cannot do much about. Energy in is always going to equal energy out.


 But too much can be regulated, much like the concept of crimping a hose that little pump attached to it. It will only turn as fast as it's supply can move past it.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 05:29:57 AM by Infinity Steel »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 03:22:59 PM »
Sure.  That will clamp it at a nice voltage.


Just be sure you have a dump load and controller so you don't overcharge the batteries - or be prepared to check and if necessary top off the battery water every week or so (and don't run that way with jell cells, just flooded lead-acids.)


Or keep track of your state of charge with a good digital meter and use extra power if you're getting too full - but that gets to be a pain really quick.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 03:22:59 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2006, 03:46:38 PM »
Under low wind you want all the power you can get - because there's almost none there.  Cogging is the "detent"-like effect of the magnets irregularly attracting the iron core through the coils (when present).  It's like the way an old mechanical TV channel selection knob sticks to the selected channel, or like rolling a log over a series of low humps.  It can be mitigated by shaping the cores correctly and/or staggering the magnets appropriately (to smooth out the "humps").  Cogging (if severe) may make the rotor "stick" when it's calm and not start up until the wind is blowing moderately fast.


Because the genny has to be spinning at a minimum speed ("cutin speed") to do any charging, cogging is not a problem if it's mild, as long as the rotor starts spinning below the wind necessary to spin it up to cutin.  But if it cogs too much you lose the opportunity to pull some power when you need it the most.


As the wind speeds up the power goes up fast:  Ideally it could go up with the cube of the speed, but for the way the simple mills we build here work, it only goes up roughly with the square.  That's not a problem, since the divergence gets significant mainly at high wind speeds, when you have all the power your genny can handle anyhow.


The limits on mills are twofold:

 - The genny heats up - with heat proportional to the square of the current - so it will melt down or otherwise be damaged if you pull too much current.  With batteries connected it will try to feed them and fry.

 - If the blades spin too fast the mill will tear itself apart.  The genny keeps the speed down somewhat by loading them.  But you can't do that at high speeds because it would fry - and unhooking it in high winds would let the blades spin even faster, leading to immedate self-destruction.


So the trick is to tweak the mill so it "furls" - dropping power collection at the mechanical level in high winds.  Typical mill here does that by having the tail pivot up and the mill turn away from the wind, using the offset-shaft, angled-tail-pivot trick.  Some commercial mills have the blades designed so they do an aerodynamic "stall" - which works but makes it sound like a helicopter.  But in addition to the noise, getting that right is tough, while adjusting a tail is trivial.  Other systems include adjustable air brakes and a host of other things.  But the pivoting tail is simple, reliable, and very easy to fabricate.


Does that clarify it?

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 03:46:38 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

dinges

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 04:02:28 PM »
I'm a bit slow today, but is there another Trizzybob-contest going on? If so, we should inform Allan so he can defend his title. :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 04:02:28 PM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)

dinges

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 04:11:40 PM »
Espíritu, no worries. Won't bother you anymore.


You plant all the strawberries you want. Have fun.


Peter.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 04:11:40 PM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)

dinges

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Re: FURLING
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2006, 04:31:48 PM »
Yup. Am definitely slow today.


Congratulations Willib!


:)


At least he's improving his act; it's taking a bit longer to get him. That dump-load question had me fooled too...


Peter.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2006, 04:31:48 PM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)