# of mills?

[A6D9]

ok   I got nothing on the go now,  I"m just looking at what would be best in a low wind situation?   I"m looking like an avg of approx 4-5 miles/hr avg.

I"m wonering multiple smaller unites  say 400-500 wattes each?  or  1 super big one.

I have no data and am just trying to do research.  I"m guessing according to my hydro bill.  max is 2200 KWH per mth.   does that make any sence?

[vawtman]

Do you have any clean air or alot of obstructions like most of us have?

[A6D9]

to be honnest,  I don't know yet.  As I"m currenty renting and am trying to prepare for when i move out.  Idealy i want to say it will be clear enought.  

[cjdock]

I have a 500watt mill and 3 15watt solarpanels. In that low of wind speed, I would not have a windmill at all. I would go with just solar panels. Much less work, more consistant power output, not much to wear out, smaller gauge wire runs from panel to batteries. Unless I get prolonged 10-15 mph winds, I'm not getting a lot of truly usable power from my mill. And there is nothing wrong with it either. It's 6.5 ft diameter up almost 40 feet. It's very close to the house as well so the 6 gauge wire isn't long.

 If you do go with a mill, don't go with 12 volts, you really lose a lot to the internal coils. I could do the math for you but trust me, go for higher volts righ off the bat, for me to change now, I would have to buy a new inverter....they are not cheap! Mine is a 3000w, 6000w surge. It's way to big for what I can produce from my set-up. On real windy days, the mill puts out a lot and could charge a lot of batteries but there are just not enough of those, plus I only have 4 batteries, so output from the mill is getting dumped to prevent overcharge.

 Solarpanels......to bad they weren't a little cheaper.

[A6D9]

I"m not too concern with the low winds,   when i look at the run of a day.  I get allot of time it being above 10-11 miles an hr.  just some times it is dead calm and that lowers my avg.  

i think i should be ok.  and when it is calm, I will have a backup bycicle genny to make up for it  

and allot of other little things,  and if I need to,  a gas powerd genni.

so the question remains,  would i be better with 1 big mill or multiple smaller mills.

[cjdock]

I think 1 big one. You then only have one tower, one set of rectifiers, one run of wire from genny to batteries, guy wires, cement....so many parts to a windmill install. Multiple gennies, multiple parts....

[drober23]

Available wind power increases with the cube of the rotor area.  So if you had a mill with a 10' diameter, you would need 8 (!) mills with 5' diamter to get the equivalent potential wind power.  One larger mill is going to be more powerful than several smaller ones in just about every circumstance.

There are some places where you can check for available power based on your average wind speed.  I have seen some charts that use statistical distributions to estimate the amount of time that you will get winds of a given speed on an annual basis.  This can be used to estimate what type of output you can hope for.

I think some of those are available at www.baywinds.com    That site specializes in selling Jacobs 20 Kw units, so you can't look at the estimates of the amount of power.  They also note that the wind speed is at hub height.  The higher your tower, the higher the air speed in general.  I saw an estimate that at 100' hub height, you should expect 20% faster air speed than is reported by the 30' airport reporting stations.

That said, here is a link to thier chart of what to expect at an average air speed of 11 mph.  http://www.baywinds.com/new/11mph.htm

Compare the 11 mph chart to the 15 mph chart and you will understand what a difference average air speed makes.  You can also think it backwards to imagine how small the output would be at 4-5 mph average.  It may be possible to find the math behind the Raleigh diestribution used to estimate power for lower speeds.  

I agree with the previous poster.  With an average of 4-5 mph wind power does not sound like the solution for you.  But keep researching so you understand what your options are.

DJ Roberts

[wdyasq]

"Available wind power increases with the cube of the rotor area."

Gee, that's a new one.... Have they changed Newton's Laws too? From what I remember area is on the square of dimension and power is on the cube of wind speed.

Ron

[drober23]

Doh, brain fart!  I was thinking cube of the wind speed and got myself mixed up.  

Yes, it is the square of the rotor diameter.  So he would only need 4 5' windmills to match the 10' one.  

DJ Roberts

[paradigmdesign]

Where is it that you live that has an average wind speed of 4-5mph, that seems quite low, and would put you in class 1 as far as wind goes.  It is historcially been thought that anything under a class 4, 14.5mph average wind speed is "unfarmable".  Though I live in a class 3 (almost a class 4) and we have 4 1.8MW turbines right down the road.      To make that 2200 KWH per month work, you would need one large turbine.  For example, a 2.75Meter DIA durbine with a 5kw max output for one month IN A CLASS # would only be arround 1000KWH.  You are trying to get double that output with 20 times less wind power.

i.e. 2.75 meter DIA in a 5mph wind will put out 60 watts (before losses) and the same size turbine will put out 1207 watts in a 13.5mph wind. (assuming 40% blade efficency)

If 5mph is really the average wind speed where you are, then I would recomend looking into solar or some other RE source, cause the wind power is just not there.

[paradigmdesign]

where it says class #, i meant class 3

[A6D9]

i currently live in Fredericton NB Canada. and I"m havign a heck of a time finding reliable records for here.  i have gone to http://www.wunderground.com/d did a ruff estimate for my area.  and my neighbring area called Oromocto NB.  they both have a low avg it says.  But i see that at east 3-4 hr most days it is about 10 some times even hits 30 miles/hr.  the bad part is that in the slower mths.  it may go calm for 4 days a week.  but conviniently enought the calm times, are most often same as sunny times,  and also the same time of the year that is very low consumption.  the 2200/mth is only 1 mth of the year.  The coldest as we heat with electricity here.

My pla would be to first heat eather "ongrid" or another source.  and use solar during the slow wind times and also during the windy.  but i want the bulk of my power from wind.

and if I need to.  I will use the grid for no reserve days, or I could make myself one of those homemade generators.  I have an old lawnmower motor I could convert.

[wind4Reg]

Hi Darren, your in Fredericton NB, are ya, it is good to see another fellow NBer on here. I am about 35 mins east of Saint John.

If your planning on getting your own place, try to find one with a woodlot and a stream. You can heat with wood and use the stream for a micro turbine. Then supplement that with your Windmill and some solar. That is a lot of hydro for one month, I avg about 1200 KW per month with a 3000 sqr ft home, 4 kids and a wife that loves hot water.

best of luck,

wind4Reg

[A6D9]

it is great to see a fellow NBer.     the hydro in question is for my parents house, 4 level split level.  and for the coldest mth of the year.  I just looked at their power bill and looked at that chart for the #.

I would rather be makign more power then needed then not enought.  And I"m sure I can cut it down to allot.  When I move out it will be just me and my GF and a 10 mth old.  And probly allot smaller home.

I want to find a place with a stream for the pure fact that solar is expensive and the hydro would provide while the winds are slower in summer/Fall.  

According to NB power if you do a grid tie and sell your power back to them.  It allways gets rest on march 31st.  Wich is right about when the winds die down, so I can;t exacly store the energye from the winds on the grid to use later.

But I have a line on some 48volt 800AHr batteries for cheap.  Gona try to get enought storage capacity to live off of for at least 2 weeks.  and if by the end of 2 weeks my bank is going low.  I will try to use diff gens in mind.  suc as human power or if need be a gasoline powerd one.  

This is all going to be a hobby that I want to do with my son as he grows.  So baby steps.  

[wind4Reg]

Hi Darren, what do you mean by:

It allways gets rest on march 31st.

I have looked at this post a couple of times now and I still can't figure out what you mean by this. Can you elaborate on this a little?

thx,

wind4Reg

[A6D9]

sorry i never noticed this reply till now, hope it's not too late,  Rest should state reset.  sorry typo,

NB Power will let you go on grid and sell back to them, however if you have a credit by march 31 st.  they will put your balance back to 0 and you lose that credit.

So in our environement.  Where most of our good wind is from nov-april.  If you build a credit up as a buffer for the rest of the year.  it makes no diff becasu all that was built will be lose on march 32st.

Here is a copy of the email they sent me.

Good day, Mr. A6D9,

Policy:

A customer may connect a generation unit that uses renewable fuels and

has a nameplate rating of up to 100 kW to the NB Power Distribution -

Customer Service (Disco) grid.  The output of the generation unit may be

used to offset the customer's own consumption.  Monthly credits not used

within any month may be carried forward and used to reduce future

consumption until March 31 of each year.

Enrolment Limits:

The aggregate capacity of net metering projects and embedded generation

on the distribution system within NB Power territory is capped at 21 MW.

NB Power Consultation:

Before the proposed generation facility installation is initiated, the

customer must apply to Disco for necessary approvals to join the

program.

Renewable Fuels:

The electricity that is generated must be in compliance with Environment

Canada's Environmental Choice Program published in "CERTIFICATION

CRITERIA DOCUMENT CCD-003" and must be generated from: alternative use

electricity; biogas-fuelled electricity; biomass-fuelled electricity;

solar-powered electricity; water-powered electricity; wind-powered

electricity.

Connection Details The technical requirements for connection are

recorded in the Technical Specifications for Independent Power

Producers.

Metering:

Disco will provide a meter that will record customer's consumption and

customer's net excess generation in accordance with Disco's meter

reading procedures.  The generator will be responsible for providing a

live phone line to the meter.

Billing:

Monthly energy consumption will be reduced by the customer's generation.

The customer will be billed at the appropriate retail rate for the

balance of their requirements.  Any net excess generation within a

billing cycle will be carried forward to the next billing cycle.  At the

end of March in each year, any accumulated net excess generation will be

zeroed out without compensation to the generators.

Associated Documents:

Application for Net Metering, Agreement for Net Metering, Technical

Specification for Independent Power Producers, FAQ's, Rate Schedules and

Policies

If you require further assistance please contact us. Thank you for using

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Rhonda

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