Author Topic: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?  (Read 1565 times)

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samuk

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Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« on: November 10, 2007, 06:19:10 PM »


Hi I am planning to get this wind turbine;

http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/products.html

Weight - 22Kgs

Rotor Diameter - 1.8m

I have been given this info by the turbine provider about the wind resistance etc.

http://regenerate.pbwiki.com/f/Overturning%20moment.pdf


I am planning to mount this onto a cherry picker with the basket removed so that I can move it between events.


The cherry picker I am looking at is 30 feet high

http://www.niftylift.com/trailer/90.htm

The base is 6'11 wide, and will weigh 2000lbs in total, with 500lbs being added to the base (batteries, back up generator)


Will this fall over or be a danger in a 100mph wind?


By how much should I extend the base outriggers to make it completely safe?


I have found this info about calculating tower strength but do not know how to apply it;

http://em-ntserver.unl.edu/Mechanics-Pages/Mitch-Minarick/Statics%20Web%20Page.html


Any advice gratefully received.


Thanks


Sam

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 06:19:10 PM by (unknown) »

jmk

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 11:36:41 AM »
 150 mph is a lot of force. I would take it down before the storm I have seen a hundred mph wind blow over a four foot high cinder block wall. Just my humble opinion.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 11:36:41 AM by jmk »

simonbrookes

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 03:22:41 PM »
I don't know about the turbine or the tower but I purchased a Nifty the other month. It is very stable and works well. I have installed 15 turbines with it so far.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:22:41 PM by simonbrookes »

commanda

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 03:34:03 PM »
Risk/Benefit ratios.


RISK:

It will fall over.

People may/will die.

You will spend a significant part of the next 20 years in jail on some version of wilful or negligent manslaughter.


BENEFITS:

None that I can think of.


Amanda

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:34:03 PM by commanda »

vawtman

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 03:54:36 PM »
Where ya from Sam?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 03:54:36 PM by vawtman »

bob golding

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 05:32:20 PM »
have to agree with commanda here.

problems:


  1. cherry pickers are not designed to have the bucket taken off.
  2. you cant really caltulate the loading in relation to the bucket.
  3. you could ask the designer of the cherry picker,but take a lawyer with you. dont expect them to tell you much.
  4. it might fall over and kill, maim someone,or destroy someone elses property for which you would definatly be held responsable. no insurance company would touch it.
  5. its just a bad bad idea.


if you want to use something to take around fairs ect just make a sectional tower with guys and a gin pole. think along the lines of a large marquee. they have a simular set up, and they are safe insurable and easy to rig up. you could do something with hydraulics like some fairground rides, but if it was me i would use ropes and winches.


cheers

bob golding

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:32:20 PM by bob golding »
if i cant fix it i can fix it so it cant be fixed.

spinningmagnets

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 07:32:17 PM »
I've worked with mobile lifts before, and although they can't be raised unless the engine (and hydraulic pump) is running, the ones I've worked with can be lowered even if the engine is off.


Perhaps you could constuct something similar to an anemometer, and when a certain windspeed is reached (10 MPH over furling?) an electronic switch is tripped and a battery actuates a solenoid that bleeds the hydraulic fluid through a drain valve to the supply tank, lowering the boom.


Even if this idea is sound, there may be a better way to "auto-lower" than the switch method I've suggested.


If your heart is set on getting a lift as a portable tower, it's possible nobody will be able to talk you out of it. It would be handy for towing your windmill to demonstrations, but if the wind exceeded 50 MPH, I can't imagine there being any people around.


It sounds like you want to set it up and leave it unattended, if so, I agree that you should add guy wires, perhaps anchored by tanks that are filled with water after placement. If a big storm comes through before you can get to it (to lower it) you should set up a fence far enough around so that if it does pull up the anchors and fall over, nobody is near. Even with a fence and warning signs, stupid people could be inside the fence and injured. Even if you are not legally liable because of your precautions, it can still be very expensive to go to court and prove it.


"If you don't have anything good to say about anyone...come sit by me" -Alice Roosevelt

« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 07:32:17 PM by spinningmagnets »

thefinis

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2007, 05:39:32 AM »
Even if you have enough weight and the outriggers are long enough is it going to be stable no matter which direction the wind is from? What if the arm is not centered and extended properly? You still have the problem of blade failure even if the cherry picker stands firm. One good thing here is that in winds above 40 or 50 there really should not be people wandering about but you still have property damage that can occur. How is your insurance guy feeling about all this?


Try reading this thread "free standing tower" and read the link in my post there.


http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/7/16/3450/63291


Finis

« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 05:39:32 AM by thefinis »

wphfl

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2007, 07:10:46 AM »
Hello Sam,


Your proposed tower is not safe as a freestanding structure.  It will require guy wires for stability.


Based on a 100 mph wind and accepting the manufacturer's form factor of 0.7, the turbine and tower has an overturning moment of approximately 20,000 foot-pounds.


The resisting moment of the trailer mass, turbine mass, and trailer width is approximately 4,700 foot-pounds.  The actual resisting moment is less than this since I was unable to deduct the basket mass as it was not listed.


Your proposed tower is good for less than 24 mph winds.


Regards


Kevin

« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 07:10:46 AM by wphfl »

wooferhound

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2007, 09:26:50 AM »
Here is a tower that is designed just exactly for what you are doing. Much safer and way less expensive.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/9/17/192448/406

« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 09:26:50 AM by wooferhound »

wphfl

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Re: Will my tower fall over in 150mph gusts?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 02:23:13 PM »
Sam,


Sorry mate, I made a mistake in my maths.  The overturning moment is 15,000 foot-pounds, not 20,000.  Still much more than your tower will support in unsupported mode.


regards


Kevin

« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 02:23:13 PM by wphfl »