Author Topic: Wrong Motor (Read 8604 times)

adaml · « **Reply #33 on:** August 27, 2008, 08:27:49 AM »

Thanks Ghurd and for the continued encouragement. I will have to look at the drill rpm when I get home tonight. Probably quite high as its a decent Bosch I brought to punch hole through the wall of the house!

I had offered the blades up to each other and weighed each as best I could. I know the match was not 100% but was reasonably happy with it. I had not balanced yet either.

adaml · « **Reply #34 on:** August 28, 2008, 03:29:18 AM »

Ghurd, I have followed your advice and shortened and narrowed the blades, have posted pic of them up. I would be most grateful for your thoughts. They certainly look a lot better to me!

ghurd · « **Reply #35 on:** August 28, 2008, 07:29:13 AM »

Much better!

Still not a great motor, and the blades are probably not a good match to the motor (PVC blades are somewhat forgiving), but the chances of it working just went up a lot.

I am quite confident they will reach charging voltage.

I would expect charging to start at about 0.1875 x drill RPMs.

The 0.1875 is from the drill test (15V charging voltage / 80V tested).

But you never can tell if the motor knows the math! Many of mine do not.

I hope you learn something from it, and have fun. The next one is easier.

Great emphasis needs placed on the current site being VERY bad.

It will need to be in a spot with nothing in front or behind. Or higher.

I get nothing as soon as the trees bud in spring. Your trees look more dense than mine.

G-

TomW · « **Reply #36 on:** August 28, 2008, 08:05:28 AM »

adam;

I realize you are in "testing mode" but I have to mention that dangling cable is very likely to get caught in the prop if you don't secure it from flopping around as a big loop. Had it happen myself on a test stand it made a mess and ripped the cable and brushes right out of the Ametek I was testing. I didn't see it happen but the postmortem indicated it had yawed hard and the loop opened and did not follow fast enough and the blade hooked in the loop and the rest was simply physics.

You are coming along nicely. Getting rid of that curl at the root should help it speed wise.

Tom

adaml · « **Reply #37 on:** August 28, 2008, 09:42:53 AM »

Hi Ghurd, Thanks so much for your continued support. I have ordered a totally different motor, my calculations should give approx 12v at 180rpm in 5-10mph winds, has been shipped so getting excited! Found an old post on here where someone else had brought the same motor as this and gave up, someone else posted they were no good....you live and learn and is all fun! This turbine is to go on top of a hill on an island in the Adriatic so hopefully lots of sea breezes. For mine I will go a lot higher to clear as much wind interference as possible.

Will also try to reshape my old larger blades for a bit more experimentation. The small ones went last night in a breeze with a push to get them going so I think I am also suffering with this "no good" motor from cogging, if that is the correct term?! Thanks again Ghurd, wish I had found this forum long ago!

adaml · « **Reply #38 on:** August 28, 2008, 09:45:34 AM »

Thanks Tom, will get rid of that loop tonight, that was laziness on my part, no excuses!!

adaml · « **Reply #39 on:** August 29, 2008, 08:06:28 AM »

Dear All, just a quick note to say still going, not been breath of wind to see what the modified blades will do, very frustrating. Will keep experimenting and will try to get some info together both successes and failures and pics as might be of interest to others, would like to think so anyway. Thanks again all.

ghurd · « **Reply #40 on:** August 29, 2008, 10:13:42 AM »

Newton's 4th Law states "A new windmill will not see wind for 3 days".

Not may people are aware of Newton's 4th Law. Mostly just windmill people.

G-

DamonHD · « **Reply #41 on:** August 29, 2008, 10:44:27 AM »

And putting up solar panels causes thunderstorms or even sunspots.

Rgds

Damon

adaml · « **Reply #42 on:** August 29, 2008, 02:46:45 PM »

LOL fellas!!! 'Tis true not a breath of air, yet we are forecast thunderstorms over the weekend!!!! Made another set of even thinner blades, 21" in length so will see what happens if/when the wind arrives!

adaml · « **Reply #43 on:** September 01, 2008, 07:08:18 AM »

Thanks again all. Have adapted blade and speed is a lot better, never thought it would go that fast!! Can I ask what is probably a really fundamental and beginners question about load and its definition. I am getting about 24v plus "unloaded" which I define as nothing bar multimeter connected. The thing I have noted is that with the motor connected to even just the three core wire down the tower that there is far more physical resistance coming from the motor. Connected to a bulb for example then this is even greater. This is what I understand to be "load". Am I correct in this line of thinking? Many thanks and apologies for sounding like and idiot!!

ghurd · « **Reply #44 on:** September 01, 2008, 08:54:56 AM »

I knew it would work. :-)

There should be no extra drag with just more wire. Check for one wire touching another.

The bulb is a load, but it is almost a short as far as the windmill is concerned. Bulbs are not much good for testing a windmill.

When charging a battery, no current will flow until the windmill voltage is higher than the battery voltage + diode voltage. No current flow means unloaded.

There should be no current flowing before about 7MPH wind, or it will "stall" trying to make power that is not available in the amount of wind.

Things will improve when the battery is connected.

You understand you need a blocking diode?

G-

adaml · « **Reply #45 on:** September 01, 2008, 09:02:52 AM »

Thank again Ghurd, you have been great support and encouragement. Will check the wires tonight when get home but don't think any touching. Have taken the three from the motor, connected to 7 meters 3 core down the inside of the tower then to rectifier. Connected to a battery would be a load also? I tested just by connecting my multimeter to the output with nothing else connected (pic on file), so unloaded. Have ordered a blocking diode and brought an inline fuse to go between the mill and batteries. Have acquired five new car batteries, understand they are not ideal but think they will do for a start.

Also see there is a book out, will wait for pay day and pre-order!!

Thanks again. Will keep you posted. If ever there is anything I can do in return.......

TomW · « **Reply #46 on:** September 01, 2008, 09:17:03 AM »

adam;

Careful, now. If you go praising Ghurd too much, between that all the income from his controller he will not be able to get in or out of his shop with his swollen head.

Seriously, tho, he is a great contributor here along with many others, of course.

Luckily his newfound fame and fortune have not significantly affected his humility [YET]!

Tom

adaml · « **Reply #47 on:** September 01, 2008, 09:23:01 AM »

LOL Tom!!

adaml · « **Reply #48 on:** September 01, 2008, 02:02:08 PM »

HI Guys and Ghurd, just to let you know took mill to friends farm and set up there, 20mph wind avg, highest reading on multimeter just over 70v unloaded so reckon heading in right direction!! Thanks again all for the help and inspiration.

ghurd · « **Reply #49 on:** September 02, 2008, 07:53:18 AM »

I still fit through doorways...

My ears only rub a little! :-)

G-

TomW · « **Reply #50 on:** September 02, 2008, 10:17:58 AM »

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adaml · « **Reply #51 on:** September 05, 2008, 04:51:49 AM »

Quick update, mill now up and flying, pic posted, any comments more than welcome, thanks again all for the invaluable input.

ghurd · « **Reply #52 on:** September 05, 2008, 06:42:16 AM »

You really trimmed those trees!

Great. Congrat's!

Now it works! But probably not perfect.

The 70V open has me a little bit concerned about "stall".

If 70V open was at 20MPH wind, then it may stall.

If 70V open was in a gust a ways past 20MPH, then I think it'll be OK.

I believe PVC blades are pretty forgiving where it comes to almost stalling.

After you get a feel for how it is working with PVC blades, may want to upgrade to Flux's blade.

The location in the recent photo is nice. PVC blades may not handle that kind of wind too well or too long.

"Stall"

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/10/21/02221/609

G-

adaml · « **Reply #53 on:** September 05, 2008, 08:55:53 AM »

Hi Ghurd, would guess that the 70v open was in a gust over 20mph. Hooked up to batteries and lights as load it was sticking to an average of 30v. Don't know a lot about stalling yet but will do some reading, thanks for the link, still need to work on a control unit but am bit stuck there at present, (can you suggest a good "idiots guide"), so doing things manually. Thanks again for your help.

ghurd · « **Reply #54 on:** September 05, 2008, 09:23:30 AM »

I am SOOoo late for work.

There is some confusion with terms.

This is a 12V system, correct?

Not sure what 30V means or where it came from, or how the battery and bulbs were connected.

It should be hard to get past about 15V with a battery connected.

Valterra posted some things you may find helpfull. Stall, light bulbs, and batteries...

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/19/04550/2068

Simple control unit? Funny you should mention that. LOL.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/8/24/172521/889

http://ghurd.info/dc.html

G-

ghurd · « **Reply #55 on:** September 05, 2008, 09:34:23 AM »

One more...

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/6/9/41955/41967

G-

adaml · « **Reply #56 on:** September 05, 2008, 09:36:10 AM »

Thanks Ghurd, my confusing terminology, did exactly as Valterra did, hands on, experimental approach!! Voltage was regulated with batteries connected, switched on two 12v 20w lights wired in parallel and voltage dropped, switched off and rose again until batteries regulated. At work myself so will read the rest later. Thanks again.

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Author Topic: Wrong Motor (Read 8604 times)