Author Topic: Blade Efficiency  (Read 1364 times)

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bend1

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Blade Efficiency
« on: March 18, 2009, 01:06:43 AM »
Hey everybody,

  I'm back with another question about blades this time.  I have been using a set of three wooden blades that are 4 foot diameter with a tip/speed ratio of 7, angle of attack of 4 deg, coefficient of lift is .8.  This is on my Ametek motor. Right now I get a 1 VDC for every 1MPH of wind.  I would like to start developing 12 volt at or around 7 MPH wind.  I have made another set of blades that were 3ft diameter with a higher tip/speed ratio and these seem to work but they don't start turning until the wind is around 5 MPH.  I want the blades to turn faster in lower winds is there a formula or a method for determining this? Do I need more or less angle to the blades at the hub to generate more blade speed?  Or do I need to make the blades smaller and leave the other settings alone?

    I have not posted in quite a while but the data I have collected shows that I can get 10 or more days with a 12MPH wind a month but there are a lot more days when the wind is around 7MPH. And I would like to take advantage of those lower wind days if possible.  Thanks!

« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:06:43 AM by (unknown) »

imsmooth

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Re: Blade Efficiency
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 09:50:17 PM »
Blades will turn faster with a smaller diameter, but you will have less power available.  Your alternator will stall the blades from turning.  One solution is to have a rotor big enough to meet the generator's power capacity and then use gears to increase the RPM at the shaft if the rotor rpms are too slow.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 09:50:17 PM by imsmooth »

Flux

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Re: Blade Efficiency
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 01:02:20 AM »
Yes, I am afraid that speed is only one aspect of the problem.


There is very little power available in light winds and with a small machine such as 3ft the friction and iron loss of your dc motor is going to use it all up. With much bigger machines things become easier but even with a 10ft machine you won't get significant power below 7mph. expecting something at 5mph is not realistic so it matters little if your machine doesn't start below 5mph.


Speed depends on tsr. The higher the tsr the faster it runs. It also is a fact that for a given tsr a small rotor will be faster as the tip will not have to go so far in a given time.


Tsr is increased by reducing chord width and also pitch but there is a limit to how far you can go. High tsr blades work better in higher winds and trying for tsr over 7 in low winds probably won't pay off. Profiles are critical and so is surface finish. The blades of such things as the AirX are far more precision than you can hope to achieve but even they produce so little torque in low winds that the AirX doesn't produce anything useful below 10mph.


To get anything from tiny machines in low wind areas you need blades with tsr below 6 and a generator with virtually no losses. The only thing that even stands a chance is an axial machine with no iron loss and even then the choice of bearings is critical.


When you have gone to all this trouble you still only see a few Watts. If you can get a Watt from a 3ft machine at 5mph you have just about achieved the impossible and are near the Betz limit.


Flux

« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:02:20 AM by Flux »

SparWeb

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Re: Blade Efficiency
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 10:13:41 AM »
It doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong, but you may be expecting more than the air can give you.


If you've made wooden blades in the past, then you probably know who Hugh Piggott is and found his website at the time.  Try going back and looking through it again.  I'm always surprised by what I learn on good websites like his the SECOND time I read through it.  A few years of mulling things over and having personal experience makes a big difference to your understanding of the subtle details that you can't pick up the first time around.  Mr. Piggott's explanations are the best I've seen, and answers to the questions you ask are there for the finding.

www.scoraigwind.com


Good luck.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 10:13:41 AM by SparWeb »
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hvirtane

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Re: Blade Efficiency
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 08:39:52 AM »
You might calculate the practical available power by using the formula:


P= 0,15 x (DxD) x (VxVxV)


where D is the diameter of the wind rotor and V the wind speed. If you'll give all the dimensions in SI (meter and meter per second) the answer is in watts.


With the very high quality construction of the blades and an accurately matched generator you might get a bit more power than the formula above tells, but not much.


- hv

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 08:39:52 AM by hvirtane »