WT Collapses in USA

[SparWeb]

A news article:

http://www.pressrepublican.com/homepage/local_story_066213456.html?goback=.hom

...and the company's press release early in their investigation:

http://www.noblepower.com/pressroom/documents/09-03-13-NEP_ConfirmsAllDebrisContainedWithinSetbackAr



ea.pdf

Few details about the "faulty wiring" at this time.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

One down and one damaged out of 12,000.  Debris contained well within the setback.  Not too shabby.

(It says the farthest piece was at 348 feet.  I'm not sure what size pylon they used.  But if it was the 61.4m version (not the shortest, but nearly) the height of the blade tips at the top of the rotation would be 328 feet.  So it's not appreciably farther than the tip would be if the tower hinged over at the base.)

And due to a wiring error - identical on two of 'em (out of 65) - leading to a furling failure on loss of load.  I bet all 12,000 will be inspected and if necessary fixed in the next few weeks.

Good work, GE!

(Downside:  More ammunition for zoning types to push for limits on windmill installations.)

[SparWeb]

I followed the story a little more, and neighbouring towns with WT farms are having some tense town council meetings.  Rejected permits, re-zoning decisions, lawyers being consulted, etc.   Not pretty.  Knee-jerk reactions for sure, but local politics is often like that.  When big industry arrives in small towns it's very hard to please everyone.

No poking fun - with thousands of operating machines, there are bound to be faults from time to time.  No industry, not aviation, nor space travel, nor bridge building, can boast of a perfect safety and performance record.

[tomtmook]

I've been told that power companies here in the US (having found out recently that half of the readers are not from the US) do not need to follow Electrical Code.  Can anyone say for certain whether this is true or not?

As far as I understand they do, however, have they're own safety protocol's and procedures.  Otherwise we'd hear a lot more about incidents like this.  

[cardamon]

Utilities generally follow the NESC, and are not under the requirements of the NEC.  Note that neither of the writers of these codes, respectively the institute of electrical and electronics engineers and the National fire protection association, are government bodies thus the codes are not laws unless adopted as law by a jurisdiction.

Ill bet wind has a better safety record for coal just considering mining deaths.

[dnix71]

What code would they follow? The Grid isn't like anything else.

But, I've been on the roof of the triplex I live in to do maintenance and I looked over the electric service head and was suprised to see that there are only 3 8-guage copper wires feeding 3 meters. The wires from my meter disconnect to the my breaker panel are 4-ought aluminum and that only carries 60 amps max. The 8-guage wire to the building comes a transformer across the street behind a house.

We have few problems with FPL here in south Florida that are not self-inflicted.

1. We are forced to buy power from Georgia and Alabama because people refuse to demand Florida's gov't allow the expansion of capacity to meet local needs.
   
2. We have rotten poles all over because it's hot, humid and buggy here. Creosote and arsenic poles are not allowed anymore. There isn't anything legal to treat the poles with to make them last.
   
3. Some cities deliberately plant trees under transmission lines. That should be considered a "terrorist act" under federal law, because it endangers the lives and safety of the public when we have hurricanes/tropical storms (which happen almost every year).
   

[cyplesma]

Indeed, everyone forgets just how many lives were lost in the quest to population the west. Not even taking into account deaths related to or among native Indians.

[wooferhound]

""4-ought aluminum and that only carries 60 amps max""

4-ought wire carries over 300 amps, I'm not sure exactly how much for aluminum tho.

[jacobs]

There are many factors...open air, in conduit, insulation, and etc. 4/0 typically is rated around 200 amps.

[gizmo]

Now that would be a catastrophic failure of that power plant. But no clouds of toxic smoke, contaminated ground water, radiation fallout onto the nearby city.

Maybe a rabit got squashed?

[DamonHD]

When I last looked wind wasn't much better than coal per MWh for directly-involved workers from coal face to generator (etc), but the studies I looked at didn't include the effects of pollution, climate changes, etc, IIRC.

Wind should do much better than coal even just on the first point of course, and with maturity of the industry I hope it will.

Rgds

Damon

[Capt Slog]

We have similar knee jerk reactions in the UK.  Whenever a train derails there are boards of enquiry set up to find who is the guilty party and which heads will roll for "a tragic death which should never have happened" etc.  In the 18 months this takes, another 3000 people will die on the roads here with hardly a mention, they were "just an accident".

Perspective is sadly lacking but seems to be what fuels the British press.

.

[dnix71]

The place was remodelled in the early 1970's when Allende was in power in Chile and copper was expensive and scarce. The building was originally a duplex. That meter was added to make an efficiency and 1/1 from a 2/2.

The meter disconnect breaker is only a 60 amp double pole, but that's enough, since I live in the efficiency and have piped gas for heating water and cooking. The disconnect on the apartment panel in the utility room 40 feet away is also 60 amp. The Al wire isn't in conduit and runs across the attic. No one could legally do that now.

Aluminum is great for the power company transmission lines, but I would rather not have it inside with me.

[cardamon]

Damon,

Thats interesting.  What are the wind turbine industry deaths coming from?  Falls from the towers and/or accidents during assembly I assume?

[DamonHD]

I think so, yes.

And as more stuff goes up at sea there'll be all the hazards of that environment.

In here, for example: http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:TZozd7JiRykJ:www.ocean.udel.edu/Windpower/docs/KempEtAl-Offshor
eWindDebate05.pdf+wind+deaths+per+TWh+cf+coal&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=fi
refox-a

Paul Gipe tracks deaths of wind industry workers

per TWh generated, finding .27 deaths/TWh during the 1990s (Gipe, 2001), improving

to 0.08 deaths/TWh through the year 2003 (Gipe, 2004).

Rgds

Damon

[neilho]

"Wiring anomaly", eh? Probably what that means is that the contractor that put particular part of the installation together will be running for cover and talking to his lawyer and insurance company, a lot. The site managers (Noble) don't come off looking very well, either. Overspeed control is critical and each and every machine should have been tested after installation. Maybe not cut loose in 70mph winds, but at least tested in a high enough wind to overspeed enough to get evidence that the protection is working properly. Of course, they may be strapped for cash and cutting corners, too. Mechanic's liens (for electrical work) for $10Mil or so have been filed on the Altona park and on their upstate NY projects. It's being used by opponents of their plans to build in New Hampshire.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of windfarms and have installed and done service work on a few. It's better than it used to be, but there will always be some subpar operators out there and there will always be crashes, no matter how good the construction and management is.

Neil