Hornet blades+WindBlue 540 advice please

[johnelarue]

Hi all,

I would appreciate some help if possible.  I have a WindBlue 540 PMA and am considering hydro.  But pipe prices may be a problem.  So also considering wind.

Do you think Hornet blades would be a good match on the 540?  If so, 3 or 6.  Or should I just (gulp) build a 2 blade wooden rotor?  We have pretty good wind , as we sit at the top of the narrow valley and the prevailing south wind funnels up here pretty strong at least half the week.

Thanks,

John

[ghurd]

Might try "Google Search the Board" at the right side of the screen,

for "windblue".

The amps out of those are pretty low.  It looses efficiency past a couple amps.  Most people seem hard pressed to get 60W out of one in the wind.

If you can get an amp or 2 with hydro, it will make a lot more power per week than it will on a windmill.

G-

[Jerry]

The Hornets will work if you don't mind the noise.

But you realy shuold do my mods as discribed in my previus wind tunnel tests.

If you don't Ghurds 60 watt estimate is close. I've seen about 325 watts at 30 mph with the mods.

11 mph no mods 3 watts. 11 mph with mods 30 watts.

                           Jerry

[johnelarue]

Thank you both for your frank comments,

  60 Watts with wind, sounds pretty poor, again thanks. Hydro is looking better.

What kind of "mods" do you mean?  Blade mods or motor mods? or both.

Thanks again,

John

[Jerry]

Mods to the alternators internal wiring.

Here is the stock star wiring.

Here is the modified circut.

This with the Hornet blades will make a usable wind generator. In the stock mod its  prety usless without very strong winds.

                     Jerry

[adaml]

John,

I have tried a Windblue "Low Wind".  I would suggest that if you want to experiment with blades go for some easy PVC about 21' each blade x 3 as a start - they need to be fast in my opinion (I have some pics in my files of my setup).  Alternatively think about carving some wood blades in the region of 21" to 24" - these worked for me but a word of warning - if using it for wind, don't expect it to match the quoted specs on their site using it as is.

Hope this is of some help.

Adam.

[Yyrkoon]

As I have no personal hands on experience, I can not give you exact, or 100% reliable information. But I have two neighbors that have had, and have used similar units.

The units used here were actually "Mallards" but same type of "machine" from my understanding.

One neighbor had 3 Mallard D400's, and said they put out a lot of power. 2400 WATTS peak in high winds. However, one by one, they all failed within 3 months. The person who sells these units is also less than 30 miles away from us, and would not come out to the site to see why they were failing. So this neighbor of ours got a refund, and opted for an Airx instead, which is still flying to this day 3-4 year later. The latter statement by the way is not an endorsement, just a fact. The Airx systems have issues of their own, but they seem to be  pretty reliable. They do however have a bad habit of whipping counter clockwise, and break blade tips off if you're not careful of how you mount them. I was given one in trade that had this happen to it.

The other neighbor had 2 Mallard D600's until one blew down ( the pole fell damaging the unit ), now has one operational. As stated by the owner; "It sounds like a banshee in high winds". It uses 6 similar blades to that of which you are talking about.

Now it is my understadning ( and I may be wrong ) these Hornet blades are just lengthened knock offs of Airx blades. If the unit is poorly mounted, and the machine whips counterclockwise . . . the blade tips go missing. They flex a lot, but mounted on the Airx machine, they are not terribly loud. Now on a "Car alternator mounted on a pole" they do make more noise, but whether it bothers the owner or not I think it subjective. Everytime I listen to the one machine still flying at our neighbors, it was nothing I could not live with. However, since they're 1/4 mile away (40 acre lots here), when the wind blows hard, you would be lucky to hear anything 1/10th that distance.

With all of the above said, do keep in mind the wind in our area can be very violent. 80 MPH gusts are not the rule, but are not uncommon. Average wind speed 30' up is ~15MPH, and not because the wind is always blowing

[johnelarue]

Thanks jerry, for drawing posting the diagram, I hope to get the confidence and knowledge to tackle that some day.

Adam, g, and Yyrkoon, also much thanks for helping me out.

We had a squall kick up yesterday that trashed nearly all my corn, and probably would have trashed some PVC blades as well.  Thinking more hydro these days but may wind up experimenting with both.  I have 2 waterwheels that could work with the re-wired mods unit.

Thanks,

John

[WINDMILLDAVE]

Hello Jerry..

I've ordered parts for the windblue conversion with the three bridge setup.  I don't seem to find where the three windings are tied together after disassembly that need to be seperated.

Dave..

[WINDMILLDAVE]

I have found the place where the three windings tie together and now have a question.  I assume that the bottom of each winding as shown on the schematic would be the leads that were originally tied together.  Can someone verify that?  Thanks.

Dave..

[ghurd]

Dave,
Correct.  Verified.
(it really doesn't matter)
G-

[WINDMILLDAVE]

I have modified the windblue 540 PM with the three bridge circuit.  There is some noticeable improvement.  But my prop moves slow and at near stall condition in even 20-30 mph wind only putting out about 1/2 amp.  It is a 6 blade Thermodyne Systems model HWB6 prop.  I added a 16 ohm large watt resistor in series with the plus side of the down lead which allows the prop to increase speed probably 5 fold.  The resistor gets hot to the touch.  The efficiency of the prop is so much better at higher speed that the power lost in the resistor is more than offset by the increase power from the fast turning prop and now can get around 1 to 1-1/2 amp out.  Almost like getting something for nothing.  I know that the prop is the weak link.

Anyone have experience with this prop and any recommendation of a better prop to use?

Dave..

[dave ames]

"But my prop moves slow and at near stall condition"
i agree with your trying to run in stall assessment. sounds like we have plenty of voltage (too much too soon) with the series after rectification configuration and would give another one of Jerry's sketches a try. we are calling this one "individually rectified phases" or IRP.

the second sketch in post #3

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,127282.0.html

it's all good fun,
dave

EDIT: that should say the second sketch in REPLY #3

[Flux]

The standard unmodified alternator is too fast and Jerry's series bridge connection will lower the cut in speed to make it work.

The Windblue thing is rewound for too low a cut in speed anyway so you need the standard Jerry (IRP connection) to raise the speed for the Hornet blades.

Keep the 3 bridges but connect their dc outputs in parallel rather than series and forget the capacitors. Most likely it will still be slow for the blades but a much better match.

Flux

[adaml]

I can't comment on the Hornet blades but IRP does make improvement, not much but some, that is what I ended up doing.  I ended up putting 3 wood blades, 24" carved from 4"x 2", worked OK.

[WINDMILLDAVE]

OK..I changed the three bridge series configuration to the three bridge parallel without the caps as suggested above for the Windblue 540.  Wow.. what a difference in performance.  The prop is no longer in a stall mode as was before with a good wind. The prop can now spin up before the voltage cut in starts so the prop is running in a very much more efficient RPM range before it sees the battery load.  In a good wind I was getting 2-5 amps out and with wind bursts of 6-10 amps.  The PM is just on a test stand 6' off the ground so the wind turbulence is bad for testing.  Need to get it up in the air above wind obstacles.

Still would like to hear of anyone else using the prop I'm using.  Likes or dislikes of the Thermodyne Systems 6 blade prop HWB 6.

[dave ames]

Hey Dave,

Glad to hear we are getting some reasonable output now! WOO HOO 

first thing that comes to mind about those blades is those dang things are SHARP! of course you know that by now..

we have had a set of those since '06? paid way too much at the time..over 2 bills back then. flew them with an overpriced SCS48 pma, some of the air-x type decorations as well as with some dc motors.

they always seemed to do their best with the 6 blades..we cut three of them down to 24" for a three blade set up that did ok with a small 90v 1/4hp pmdc motor. did try them as a 2 blade prop and that was a comical failure

all in all i'm glad i have them around..it's a fast and easy way to get something in the air. (and better than some of my DIY pvc blades)

i see they have some see through blades now! ....stealth windmill anyone?

cheers, dave

[tecker]

 With the wind type stator in the delcos you still need some RPM to get the full Amperage from the stator . Also the 35 or 40 amps needs some swept area to hold that load which   seems like 500 + RPM s which is a brisk wind . 
The beauty of having caps on the load is a higher star voltage sooner . the hornet blades Can give the RPM if you can hold down the charge rate  .
 Putting it altogether I see more performance on the load with some feed back from the rotor . I use a coil 1000 turns with 10 magnets on the rotor and three 2n3055 or like on the ground parallel . These kick in at cut  and keep the rotor speed up  taking  advantage of having caps on each Phase .
Make yourself some blades and use some feed back for more flexibility without the money going to a set of blades that will tick off the neighbors.

[WINDMILLDAVE]

Well guys,  my three grown sons and I returned from Alaska July 3, where we spent a week in a log cabin at Twin Lakes located in Clark National Park. The only way to get there is by float plane.  It was an absolute fabulous week fishing, hiking, boating and just plain relaxing.  My intentions were to take NY modified Windblue 540 to keep a 35 amp deep cycle 12 V battery, I purchased in Anchorage , charged for a week that would keep two way radios, digital came rs, camcorders and a laptop battery charged.  The weight of the windcharger, controller and misc came to about 65 lbs.  It would cost about a $1 a lb to ship it there and another $1 lb. back.  That would have come to $130.  Then the question, would there be enough wind off the 7 mile lake to make it work.  So two weeks before the deadline to ship it by USPS to Port Alsworth I decided it wasn't worth the gamble and expense.  I bought a 20W solar panel from Lowes that weighs 7 lb and sent it up there.  Turns out my fear of not enough wind proved right.  The low clouds that refused to burn off somedays didn't help the solar panel either.  So with one day left to go the Inverter popped off, when turned on to use, due to low voltage.  The boat motor, a Honda 9 HP, was found to have a 12V charger on it.  However no cable was found at the cabin.  I have been an improviser for many years so was able to get around the connector problem and we got to charge the battery some on a boat ride to the next fishing excursion.  I would love to attach some photos but like most forums, size is limited and most of our photos are around 2 Meg.  Am not experienced to re size.

[ghurd]

Dave!
Been so long, I figured a bear got you!  Or the bugs.

Start a new thread / Post a new story.
It is nice that we were right about the wind and weight and solar situation, but we (or me) would like to see this stand on its own...
With pics.
G-