A big snag.

[fabricator]

I just found out my township just passed a brand new wind zoning ordinance, it all looks good except that guy wires are prohibited! You have to be kidding me! You can have a 120 foot tower, but it has to be a monopole, I have no idea of the cost for such a thing but it must be astronomical, I talked to the zoning administrator, his advise is for me to go to the planning board and try to get the ordinance changed, so I guess that is what I have to do.

The administrator advised that if I can show a significant cost difference that should go a long way, not to mention the continuing cost of maintenance if you have to hire a crane to lower the machine for service once a year or more, then you have the issue of safety, having to climb the tower instead of doing service at ground level, I don't think these folks did much home work on this thing, input appreciated.

[ghurd]

It should not be too difficut to find a retail cost of a brand-spankin' new cell phone tower, installed.

Any idea if the "No Guy Wires" is related to aesthetics?

Just thinking most people could not see 1/8" or 5/32" guys at a distance.

Which could put the "No Guy Wires" clause into a 'how big is allowed' discussion?

Some of the new laws could be construed to intend to mean silly local ordinances which effectively prohibit a realistic approach to RE as illegal.

Choose the wording carefully.  It is not what they know, as much as what they believe.

Two Cents with a penny change.

G-

 

[ChrisOlson]

I already dealt with this problem in our township and was the one who got the laws changed for small wind systems.

I know the people you can contact for help.  You'll find my email address in my profile - email me and I'll give you some phone numbers to get the ball rolling.  If you got a copy of the zoning code handy, that would help.

--

Chris

[SparWeb]

Are there any utility poles with guy wires in your neighbourhood?  Overhead wires?  Transmission towers?  Surely somewhere in the township there is a cable in the air larger then 3/8" diameter.  Bring a few photographs of them with you when you next meet the town planners.  Try to photograph the wire with as many houses as possible in the background, too, so he can't brush it off with a comment that it's from an "industrial zone".

Fight silly rules when you can, but good luck.  Common sense is not a common ability.

[fabricator]

Oh, I am almost positive asthetics is involved and yes the township is full of guyed radio towers and there are literally thousands of power poles with guy wires, Chris I will attach a copy of the ordnance to an email, I'm also sure most of this ordnance was a canned ordnance the found somewhere, they just read it over and approved it.

[dlenox]

Dale,

My freestanding lattice tower from AN Wireless was under $5k.  No Guy wires...

Dan Lenox

[fabricator]

I have spent most of my career up high, 50 is to old to spend any time climbing an 80' tower.

[defed]

most ppl on town/planning/zoning boards don't know a whole lot about anything useful.  it's easy for them to pass rules that seem good on the surface, but have no idea about the actual impact it has in real life usage.

i had an interview for my town's "zoning board of appeals" (2nd time in 2 years...didn't get the spot last year) the other day and will find out if i got the position tonight.  i think there was only me and one other guy...but i have a feeling the town board doesn't like me that much.  but we'll see.  not that it will help YOU any, but if i can get on the board, i can at least try to make a difference in my town.

[fabricator]

Good luck, more power to ya.

[dnix71]

Do they prohibit Ham radio towers with guy wires? The rule doesn't sound like it was well thought out. Maybe they want all tripod towers.

I don't see how any tower above a certain height could be engineered "safe" without some support wires. You are deliberately catching the wind at the top of the tower with your mill. That extra load doesn't apply fo Ham or cell towers.

Maybe a letter to the city engineer, asking how he expects this to be done without wires will get him to talk to the township commissioners about safety.

The cell phone towers here are actually stell frame bell towers. There is lots of room inside for electronics and batteries.

[fabricator]

There a lots of towers in the township right now with wires, the location of my tower will be in the center of 60 acres and not visible to anybody but me, I sure it was just a matter of nobody on the board had any clue about small wind.

[ChrisOlson]

Thanks, I'll get back to you - can call you on the phone if you like and tell you about the rigmarole I had to go thru here.

Most of these ordinances for small wind systems were adopted by town boards as what they call "general adaptability" ordinances.  Some of them, in light of federal tax subsidies on alternative energy systems for homes and RPS mandates, are illegal after February 2009 (in the US).  But they don't get changed until somebody challenges them.

--

Chris

[bj]

   Fabricator--I don't want to sound too paranoid, but one thing to consider is that the rule changes were aimed directly at wind turbines.  A lot of people would shy away from building a free standing.  It can be done of course, but more difficult/expensive.  Only reason I brought this up, is to warn you to proceed carefully, with lots of documentation backing you up.

   Whatever the reasons for the rule changes, I wish you the absolute best of

luck.

[fabricator]

There were no rule "changes" prior to this ordnance we had no wind ordnance at all, Chris did you get my email with the ordnance attached?

[ChrisOlson]

Nope.  Haven't seen it yet.

--

Chris

[nekit]

You might try for a variance.  Many boards are more apt to just issue a variance than change the rules.  Just my 2cents.

[TheCasualTraveler]

     As Chrisolson said the ordinance may not be legal. Check the recent laws for your state that apply to energy saving devices. Chances are banning them or making them cost prohibitive is not allowed. If you can show that a monopole tower is far more costly than a guyed tower, and can show them the state law that applies you may do just fine. Speak softly and gather lots of info.

[fabricator]

As it turns out I went to high school with the president of the county commission, I just sent him a lengthy email on the subject with lots of links and references, we shall see how he responds, apparently they had some guy who used to work for Bergy in an advisory capacity when the drew up the model ordinance, why in the heck would this guy let something like that make it n the ordinance?

[David HK]

Here is a tip for you.

Check the legislation very carefully and confirm that it specifically refers to guy wires and nothing else. The key word is 'wire' or wires.

I have sailed on different ocean going yachts that have two types of rigging - 'wire' and 'rod' rigging. Wire is almost without exception multi strand. Rod is a single rod - say 10 mm or more.

In my opinion 'rod' type stays would get around your problem. Some of the rod rigging lengths on ocean going schooners would be longer than your proposed usage.

You need to discuss this with engineers and legal eagles.

Good luck.

David in HK

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

They can't prohibit Ham towers, period.  They're used for a federally licensed service and the FCC regs override zoning.  (That's why people in Ann Arbor Michigan were able to bypass the '60s or so sign ordinance by painting signs on the old Big Ugly Dish satellite antennas, too.)

(The previous king of Saudi Arabia was a ham and used to show up and provide lawyers for hams fighting stupid city ordinances on this issue, too.  In places like small towns in Oregon.  This could be very funny.)

[fabricator]

I wonder if the present king is into small wind or guyed tilt up towers?

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Probably not.  They get their money from oil.  B-)