Voltage doubler using 3 phase from AirX

[websterbrothers]

Hello all, can anyone point me in the direction to where i can find a circuit diagram that shows how to make a voltage doubler using the 3 wires that come out of the AirX all the diagrams i'm finding are only for 1 phase

thanks in advance

[kww]

I don't know of a doubler for 3 phase, but you can put a doubler on each phase and by putting a diode at each doubler output you can then hook them together.

[websterbrothers]

Hi Kww

thanks for your quick response, can you give me a diagram on how to do that cuz i'm sort of a NewBee in electronics game.

thanx again

[RobD]

The problem with the 403's is that they are designed to charge batts directly. When the voltage reaches a specific voltage they shut down. You can turn the small pot fully clockwise to turn off the regulator but you will still have DC coming out of the 403. Turning the pot will allow you to use an external regulator to charge batts but you will not be able to double it with xformers. One more point if you do this make sure you use an external regulator that diverts the load from charging directly to the dummy load and doesn't leave the 403 open after the batts are charged. This will cause problems with the 403.

RobD

[websterbrothers]

hi RobD

my turbine is not the 403 it's the AirX which has a 3 phase winding with just 3 wires coming off labled 1, 2 and 3 i've removed the entire regulator circuit from the turbine and ran the 3 wired down the pole to the bottom so i can do my expirements instead of having to take down the turbine it's a 12V turbine, and my average wind speed here is only 5mph i tend to get around 5 - 10V a lot and only bursts of 12mph where it starts charging as the documentation says it's gotta reach 500rpm to start charging so i wanted to know if i can use some type of doubler circiuit to raise the voltage during low windspeeds (which i mostly get) was also looking at the pulse circuit as in the postings on this site but i can find none for 3 phase windings

thanks again

[kell]

This will show you the basic diode/capacitor multiplier circuits.

http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv/hv/src/mul/index.html

He explains pretty well the limitations of a multiplier.  The things that limit available current are:  number of stages in the multiplier, and the frequency of your ac.  If you have low-frequency ac you will encounter the current-blocking effect of capactiors; this means you need bigger capacitors for lower frequency input.  Likewise if you have several stages.

[kell]

Hey kww why the diodes on the multiplier outputs?  They have the diodes in them already, you've got dc coming out of there.

[kww]

I'm new to electronics too, but I've been playing a lot lately in it.  I'm not much of a computer guy and haven't got the capability yet to post diagrams, but if you can build the doubler circuit then sticking a diode on the doubler circuit's output will be a breeze.  You need three large rectifier diodes, which look similar to resistors, but instead of resist it blocks + voltage in one direction.  By putting a diode on each doubler's outputs they're kept isolated from each other although connected to a common point after the diode.  

[kww]

Ummmmm, it's part of my new philosophy, when in doubt use a diode?  :-)  You know, I don't know why I did that, seems like it didn't work right without separating the multiplier circuits from eachother's outputs.  It very well could be something unneccesary I did for the reason that I'm really new to electronics and only know a little of what I'm doing.

[websterbrothers]

Hi Kell, i've removed the controler from within the AirX i'm coming down the tower with 3 wires all AC i'm doing the conversion at the base of the tower

[websterbrothers]

Hi guys this is what i came up with so far based on the link posted by kell can you tell me if i'm on the right track i did this using MS Paint so bear with me :-)

thanx again

[kww]

It doesn't look right to me, but then I'm not so familiar with the other doubler circuits.  If you make 3 separate doublers and hook each up to one phase you can simply hook all the doubler's outputs together to get your +(diodes may or not be needed at the doubler's outputs).  

[websterbrothers]

Hi kww i 'm still trying to figure this out cuz i dont understand which wire to use as the common, based on the info i got from the website they use single phase, seems to me if i use one wire as the common then i'm only using 2 phases if any others out there got an opinion please lemme know (this thing is gonna make me join the hair club for me cuz i'm beginning to pull my hair out :-)   ) thanx again guys

[kww]

On your alternator there's a point(where all three phases are connected from what I remember) where you can put a neutral/common(I guess) wire if it doesn't have one.  Also, if I remember right, you can just use two bridge rectifiers to connect all 3 phases and convert it all to a + and -.  The doubler/multiplier circuit I use won't work with this, but the other two methods will I think.  Good luck.

[(unknown)]

Hello websterbrothers, i think if you have 3 wires output, there is an star configuration, then you have neutral inside stator, you could find it and you will have 6 wires, but i think it´s not easy. the circuit you draw is ok, but i think it multiplies x3, if you want a x2 multiplication, you only have to put one cap for phase, for example betwen 1 and +, 2 and +, 3 and +, or you could multiply one phase x3, another x2, and another x1, then  they will begin to charge when rpm raises. You can experiment, there are some variations. Another thing is the value of the caps, i don´t know what´s the formula, but output current is diferent with diferent values. You can do some test using a little transformer 220v/6v for example, conecting to the grid, then with a bridge rectifier try with different caps, you only have to put caps betwen ac and + or - in the bridge legs, then with a meter you will know if that´s a x2 or x3 or...

[websterbrothers]

Hi Santi,

thanks for the response, but can you explain this you said

"i think if you have 3 wires output, there is an star configuration, then you have neutral inside stator, you could find it and you will have 6 wires"

seems to me i cannot find the neutral because the these 3 wires are coming off the stator no way to find it for me.

Also i've opened my Air 403 the other turbine i have and it has 4 wires and if i go across any pair i get voltage when i spin the turbine so now i'm more confused.

here's a pic of my setup it's been taken down now because of this predicament i'm in but it will be back up next weekend

thanks

[kww]

One of those wires may be the neutral.  You will get the highest ac voltage between any pair of the 3 output wires and a little lower ac voltage between the neutral and any of the 3 output wires.  You need something like a drill so you can turn the alternator at a constant repeatable speed to figure this all out.

[finnsawyer]

If you can find the common tie in the stator and are gutsy, you can cut it and bring out the three wires.  This gives you access to the three phase windings.  You then have some options.  One is to connect the windings in series to get single phase (either 0 volts or twice the value of a single winding).  Then use your voltage doubler or a transformer.  Another approach is to convert each phase to dc and combine the results.  The circuit is shown below.  Three identical diodes and three electrolytic capacitors are needed.  The diodes must be able to handle the load current.  The capacitors are large; maybe 100 microfarads.  This circuit can give an output voltage nearly three times the peak voltage of a single winding and can handle large output currents.

[Jerry]

Hi Guys

The diagram above is exactly what I did with a GM car alt. The only diferance was I used a fullwave bridge diode on each coil. I also used a 130,000 UF/15 volt cap on each bridge. I was able to get 450 watts from that alt with direct mounted blades.

Same power as a 403. Not bad concidering the alt was free and the 14 NEOs were a buck each. I was using 3 of my $10 plastic blades.

It also did 26.25 volts at 900 rpm into a 24 volt battery bank. This was from a 12 volt alt. This scheem worked better than star or delta.

                            JK TAS Jerry

[websterbrothers]

Alas i'm not that gutsy (more like chicken), by the way what if i  use that pulser circuit made by Kww to do my bidding?? would that work with a wind turbine at low wind speeds??

thanks

[hvirtane]

Hi Guys

The diagram above is exactly what I did with a GM car alt. The only diferance was I used a fullwave bridge diode on each coil. I also used a 130,000 UF/15 volt cap on each bridge. I was able to get 450 watts from that alt with direct mounted blades.

Same power as a 403. Not bad concidering the alt was free and the 14 NEOs were a buck each. I was using 3 of my $10 plastic blades.

Hi Jerry,

do you still remember,

which type of neos

you used?

Did you try with the alt as original,

I mean without converting it into

PMG at all?

- Hannu

[Jerry]

Hi Hannu

I've tryed this on stock and modifide GM alts with the same results.

There is a picture of the modifide alt on airheads. In the modifide alt I used fronts from 2 GM alts ands an armature from a garbage disposal motor.

I think the magnets were 1/2"X1"X1/4" or 1/8" can't remember? It cogged abit. The plastic blades spun it up no problem.

There is a picture on airheads.        JK TAS Jerry

[Jerry]

Hannu

Check pics air-994a.jpg and dcp0860a.jpg?

               JK TAS Jerry

[kww]

The pulser I've made works well at low wind speeds because of the multiplier circuit.  I can actually spin the rotor by hand and get 150-65 volt pulses.  However, you've got to supply AC to the multiplier circuit(you need the neutral).

[hvirtane]

OK,

Good nice...

There are many really good pictures.

I think I found the right ones.

I meant if you tried without using magnets,

just using the generator as it is, but

with different wiring connections.

I mean rectifying all the phases

separately and

then connecting in series?  

- Hannu

[websterbrothers]

that's an idea since i have a 3 phase turbine can i rectify each phase and then series them to tripple the voltage?? would this work?? can anyone shed some light on this

thanks

[Jerry]

Yes the voltage will be higher this way. 3 phase alts are out of phase by 120% each phase. If you measure the peak voltage swing between any 2 phases one phase will be at its peak but the other one won't. It can't be because there timing is seperated by 120 %.

Now if you rectify each seperatly, use a cap to bring each phase to its highest voltage potential then wire these 3 DC power supplies in siries. This will achive the highest voltage potential. Even more than star wiring.

               JK TAS Jerry

[Jerry]

Hi Hannu

Yes I've done this with a 100% stock GM alt and the results were about the same as the NEO magnet alt.

                            JK TAS Jerry

[ecogeorge]

Any chance of providing a schematic of this voltage doubler using the full wave bridge rectifier on each coil -  all single phase doublers I see use 2 capacitors on the output. How do I connect the 3 phases together ?  Or have I lost the plot?

What happens if I connect the 3 phases in series and then use a single phase voltage doubler or just a rectifier?

So many questions - so many bits of turbine on the kitchen table.

ecogeorge.

[dinges]

I haven't bothered to read the entire thread, sorry, no time.

But a voltage doubler, based on capacitors and diodes, will NOT do. These are usually only meant for small currents. Not the several amperes that I'm assuming that are needed here.

If you are sure that the outputs of your genny are AC (not DC), you can use a 3-phase transformer or, if you can't find any of these, 3 identical 1-phase transformers. With these, you can transform an AC voltage up to a higher voltage.

Do NOT bother with the voltage doublers as described here.

If your genny puts out DC instead of AC, there are other electronic solutions; not simple DIY stuff though, if you don't know much about electronics (I'm assuming you don't know much about it, if you did you wouldn't have asked this question )

Let me know if you need more help.

Peter.

[spacejunk]

Try this .GIF version. I dont think the .PCX file uploaded properly.