need help wiring 6 volt batteries into 12 volt

[picmacmillan]

I have purchased 10 6 volt batteries to use with either my wind genny or my solar panels... i do not know much about them including how many amp hour they are...i have taken a closeup of the tag on one ofthe batteries....if anyone can give me some information on them, it would be appreciated...it ssays on them 6 volt batt-0050...sealed, rechargeable battery for ups application...

 also, i need help wiring the 6 volts up to become 12 volt..

 i have 10 batteries total...

 i don't know how to connect them in series or parallel and i am very nervous about making a mistake..

 below is a photo of the batteries....i was hoping to connect them in a configuration that would save some space...for instance in 2 rows instead of 10 batteries all in one row...thank you in advance...pickster

[picmacmillan]

to further my question above...i am confused on what batteries go + to - or + to +....i will try  to do it below keeping in mind that i have 10 6 volt batteries needing them to be 12 volt for service..i was hoping someone can give me a sketch or something as i can't even draw what i am thinking...pickster

[mkseps]

Position your batteries like the first set in the picture.  This will give you five columns of batteries.  Now, the first two should be connected in series (ie. plus of one battery to minus of the second battery).  Do this for the next four sets of batteries, making sure that all battery sets are in the same direction.  Now connect the battery sets together, plus to plus and minus to minus.  You now have five sets of  two batteries connected for 12 volts and paralleled together.

Gene

[TomW]

Well;

Nothing could be more simple.

Simply wire 5 pairs in series then those 5 pairs in parallel. Series and parallel are electricity 101 stuff so I assume you understand that concept.

T

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

While you're at it:  Get them up off that concrete floor.  If possible, make a stand that lets air circulate under them as well as it does around and over them.  Put them on something insulating, like a layer of wood, as a second choice.

Putting them directly on a concrete floor will tend to make them have a temperature difference between the top and bottom of the cells.  A temperature difference will produce a slight voltage difference, leading to uneven charging, increased self-discharge, and accellerated aging.

It may not be a strong effect.  But your batteries will last longer without it.

[picmacmillan]

is this how it should be wired for 12 volt?...the picture looks like it came out like crap but it should be - - - - -

                           + + + + +

                           - - - - -

                           + + + + +   .just wanted to be sure that it is right...

...thanks for your input...pickster

[picmacmillan]

ya thanks underground...it's hard to see in the photo , but they are sitting on some 1/2" drywall...i will put them on a rack like you suggest..i just put them there for a day or so, until i can figure out where to put them once i get them wired up....thanks again...pickster

[kurt]

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_battery_wiring.html

[ghurd]

Thats it.

G-

[tecker]

   Your just proud of those bats aren't you ? you rascal.

[picmacmillan]

thanks for the help, the drawings and the picture....today is a good day....i have always been a little apprehensive when it comes to batteries.....i saw one spark once while someone was jump starting a car...it blew and the guy is lucky to be able to see...at the time we didn't know that the contents of the battery were explosive....now that's electricity 101! pickster

[ghurd]

He should be!  That top middle one is a special order item.

It has 2 negative terminals!



G-

[Volvo farmer]

What size wire are you using for your interconnects? From what I've read, if you plan on having an inverter thats rated at more than 1.5KW, you should be using 2/0. That wire doesn't look like 2/0 to me. It also doesn't look copper. Is that Al wire?

Lastly.. there was a discussion on the homepower newsgroup a week or two ago about paralleling batteries. Several folks said that more than one string of parallel batteries can dramatically shorten the lifespan of the bank. I guess if all the batteries are perfectly equal, there are no problems but if one cell gets weak, the charging charactaristics suffer a lot more in a parallel string than in a series string. As a result, all the batteries suffer when one gets weak. I don't know much about this, only what I've read recently but it might be something to consider when hooking 5 parallel strings together.

[ghurd]

Batteries in parallel or series can suffer from bad cells.

Just have to keep an eye on them.

Gotta do what you gotta do.

When a cell goes bad I would rather change a 6V 200ah in a 1000ah bank, than a whole single 1000ah battery.  More so when they are recycled batteries to begin with.

The Pos to Neg cable can be a little smaller than the main Pos or main Neg.

G-

[windstuffnow]

  Keep in mind also that each pair should be fused.  If one battery in a pair shorts then it won't take out your entire battery bank as well as possibly start a fire.

  Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

[picmacmillan]

hi volvofarmer..the wire is aluminum...it's what i have for now until i can get some #2 or #0 copper....good eye there...i am just going to use them like this for a bit....aluminum isn't quite as good as copper property wise, but the line in or out will only be about 30 feet..pickster

[picmacmillan]

hi ed, thanks for your post...if i fuse them, what would you recommend doing and how big a fuse?....i don't recall seeing anything like this, although i seem to recall somebody having a post regarding this?.....pickster

[windstuffnow]

  I use the 100 amp barrel type fuses, you can sometimes get them used ( not blown of course ) at some local fork lift repair shops or battery outlets also electrical supply and industrial outlets carry them.   I put them on the positive side between the battery and positive main line.  I use copper bar stock instead of cable its much cheaper and you don't have to buy cable ends just drill holes.  You should cover the bar stock so if you drop a wrench you don't short anything out ( although I haven't covered mine - it would be a good idea when I change them out ). Electrical tape would work fine but I've tossed the idea around of using some inexpensive tubing like PVC.

  In any case the fuses would be a good addition to keeping you and your battery bank safe.  Like an insurance premium... you don't need them until you need them then its to late.

Have Fun

Windstuff Ed

[Volvo farmer]

Really?

The guy I picked up my L16s from had twelve batteries, all just hooked together for 24V with 4/0 wire. This was a pro installation, 10 120W panels, trace 4024/ C60/ DC disconnect etc. There was big whopping fuse between the batteries and the inverter but most installations I've seen don't fuse between the batteries. You realize what a 200A fuse and code approved holder cost? About $60-75 IIRC. Multiply that by 5 to fuse every battery in a bank like this.  I've only seen 3 or 4 real life PV installations but none of the ones I've seen had fuses between the batteries.

I've never heard of a 3 cell led acid battery suddenly going dead short across all three cells either. If you happen to lose one cell, that string is still making 10V and although the output of the bank would be affected, I don't think a 2v differential between strings is going to cause a fire.

[Volvo farmer]

30 feet to what? the solar panels or the DC load?

One thing about making up proper battery interconnects... They don't wear out. If you're planning on playing with batteries for a while, it might be a good investment to make up a good set of properly sized interconnects. You will never have to do it again and they will last the reat of your life. 2/0 lugs are $1.29 ea at NAPA I think I gave about $1.80/ft for welding cable. So $50 plus some solder and heat shrink will do 10 batteries.

[persnipoles]

Al Wire's probably fine if it's thick enough & isn't repeatedly physically stressed, but the worst thing about aluminum is at any junctions --I've seen at least three cars that wouldn't start because of corrosion product on aluminum terminal lugs.  In two of three cases I scraped it off myself then boom-magic it started. Dissimilar-metals are usually a bad idea but especially when one of them is aluminum.

K

[picmacmillan]

ya thanks for the input there persnipoles...i am just using it  cuz it's all i have at the moment...i guess we could get into how many more nuetrons copper has over aluminum, or we could discuss the line loss to some degree, but my solar panels and my wind genny are 10 feet and 20 feet from where the batteries are sitting, i don't plan on putting any heavy load on them...maybe just a t.v. and 2 flourescent lights...maybe a radio...thats it...all this is for is for me to get the hang of my system...when it comes may 24 long weekend...then i will be ready to get serious about hooking this thing up...i will do as suggested and get some good disconnects and by then, princess auto will have the proper wire on sale..thanks boys, i have it figured out, thanks to the help...as always ..thank you...pickster

[ghurd]

I agree with a lot of the stuff about AL wire for long term use.

I like CU.  I also solder plate it (heat it until the solder flows real good, and keep going a lot more (it takes a lot), and when you are done the ends do not flex... like it is almost solid.  Don't melt the insulation.  Then I apply a liberal coat of anti-corrosin grease to everything, just in case.

My biggest problem with small installations and AL or CU is corrosion.  The acid fumes from the batteries and build up is nasty.  It causes corrosion big-time, and that causes bad connections.  Even more in AL.

Do anything you can to stop any corrosion in all the connections.

Keep an eye out for CU wire on sale.  I like the bigger gauge with less conductors (stiffer and less flexable).

G-

[picmacmillan]

thanks ghurd....i don't know how anyone did there own setup before this site came along...i did a little schooling and still wouldn't have the foggiest idea on how to do it....i guess like you said you gotta do what you gotta do...thanks again..pickster

[ghurd]

""i don't know how anyone did there own setup before this site came along""

Try a bunch of stuff.  Keep track of what works and what doesn't.  What the problems are and how they were fixed.  Even if it is not the popualar belief at the time (Gotta do what ya gotta do).

And those little 99 cent Red and Green anti-corrosion felt battery washers from Wally-World work great!  hIGHLY RECOMMENDED AT TWICE THE PRICE!  OK- hit the wrong button.  Too unskilled and lazy to type it again. But they do great for wiring problems 'before' they happen.  Put them on every battery terminal.  You will be glad (or better yet- not even know you are glad) you did.  I don't sell them.

G-

[picmacmillan]

thanks ghurd, that's another good idea...i am all for getting those anti corossion washers if it means less work....in my book, less work = more relaxation :)pickster

[Jerry]

About the prices on large fuses and fuse holders. Being in the car stereo biz since 1976 I've seen car audio system powers in the begining in the 100s of watts to now in the KW range.

We hold the NW SPL record at 170 DB. Our compitition and demo truck has 54,000 watts onboard.

We use 14 Optima red top and four 2 volt lift truck batteries wire as a 14 volt system.

IASCA and other car audio compitition sanctioning bodies requier only one fuse at the battery bank feeding each and any circut the come to or leaves the battery bank. A fuse at an apropriat amperage for that circut and wire feeding it.

As per prices on fuses and fuse holders (gold plated by the way).

AGU or as Ed called them barrel fuses are available in gold, gold with LED indicator or nickle starting at 5 amps up to 100 amps. Holders for these start at $10 each. The nickle AGU fuses are $1 each. The gold and LED fuses are more.

If you need fuses starting at 50 amps up to 300 amps the ANL blade types are good. You can also find the ANL industrial up to 800 amps.

We sell the ANL fuse and fuse holders for $10 each.

Another fuse type is the MAXI fuse. The are a blade plugin type like the smaller atc.

The maxi starts at 20 amps and up to 120 amps.

There are single, dual, 3, or 4 gang holders for all these fuses in gold or platimum.

We also have a good selection of power or ground distribution blocks.

The ANL fuse holder will accept up to 4/0 ring tungue connectors.

I use the 250 amp ANL fuse and holder with my 2850 lb lift truck battery and 2500 watt inverter.

A use 4 each 4 gang ATC fuse holders/dist blocks for the 14 wind gennys on the store roof.

We have so much nice power distrobution products at a much lower price then any RE retailer offers.

I don't understand why people buy the supper high price comercial/re stuff when

the car audio stuff is so resonable.

I know I love using this hardware both on my 14 genny re system at my store and my 7 genny system at home.

I made a very nice distrobution panel at my shop at home for all 7 gennys.

If this group would like I could put together a price sheet and some pix and special pricing for my fellow RE freinds.

                   JK TAS Jerry