Author Topic: Inverter ?  (Read 884 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

(unknown)

  • Guest
Inverter ?
« on: July 15, 2005, 04:17:32 AM »
Hi all I have a problem .I have a modified sine wave inverter now i have a few things that need true sine wave im off grid with a genset and solar and small wind mill is there a way to convert a modified sine wave to true sine wave ,or can i just get a small true sine wave  say 500 to 1000 watts and hook it up to my breaker box along with the modified one or will there be a problem like back feed or something mu inverter has a ac sensing mode for line power  and i dont want to backfeed while the modified sine wave inverter is on .


my inverter now is hooked to both legs of the breaker box  making 40 amps i need the true sine wave to be some how connected with it so i can use my X-10 stuff .

i could move the main inverter to 1 leg of the breaker box and the new true sine wave to the other but im not sure that will get me what i want all the wires have to be linked for x-10 to work  there recomend combining both legs of the 220 for this but i only have 110 .im stumped for now  !@!


Well Thanks  

« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 04:17:32 AM by (unknown) »

bob g

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1107
  • 8.8kwatt idi diesel thermal conversion unit
    • microcogen.info
Re: Inverter ?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2005, 11:07:47 PM »
if it was me, i would under no circumstance try to gang the modified unit to the pure unit. there is no provision to link or syncronize the two, leaving a cloud of smelly smoke as your punishment.


is there no way to run a seperate service to the load that requires the pure sine wave inverter?


what are you doing with the x10 product?


bob g

« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 11:07:47 PM by (unknown) »
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

thunderhead

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Country: ie
Re: Inverter ?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2005, 03:34:41 AM »
As I understand it, the problem with running X10 equipment off a modified sine wave invertor is that the X10 communicates using tones transmitted on the mains cables, and the harmonics from a modified sine wave invertor stamp all over those tones.


One solution might be a filter on the output of your modified sine wave invertor, which would effectively convert it into a true sine wave invertor.  Such a filter could be constructed with inductors or resistors, coupled with capacitors - but both components would be pretty chunky, and the filter would consume energy from the invertor, making it less efficient.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 03:34:41 AM by (unknown) »

Experimental

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
Re: Inverter ?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2005, 10:35:08 AM »
          Your breaker box is , I assume, 220 -- use one buss in the box for the mod sine wave inverter, the other for the true sine wave -- be sure to seperate the nutrals from each other--- every other breaker will be true sine wave !!!

      And of course, don,t have any 220 breakers in there -- Bill H.........PS, just saw a true sine wave inverter add in Northern tool catalog..??
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 10:35:08 AM by (unknown) »

Tom in NH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
Re: Inverter ?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2005, 09:47:04 PM »
I ran into the exact same problem as you when my microwave oven refused to work with my modified sine wave inverter. The theory of filtering is that a square wave is really a sine wave with a great deal of harmonic noise. If you filter out the harmonics, you end up with a pure sine wave. In practice, building a filter is tricky because it's performance depends a lot on the load it sees. If the load changes, so does the attenuation of the harmonics. I experimented with several different filter designs, but was never able to come up with a filter that would run my microwave.


Some power line conditioners will do a fairly good job of converting a modified sine wave into a pure sinewave. If you shop for one, make sure that's one of the features. The Elgar 6000B is one such older model. It works by creating a pure sine wave as a reference. The modified sine wave is fed into a transformer. A difference amplifier compares the transformer output with the reference voltage. Power amplifiers adjust the output to match the pure sine reference. The 6000B runs my microwave for about a second before the internal 15 amp circuit breaker trips. So now I have a nice sine wave maker capable of 1000 watts output that I'm not quite sure what to do with.


Sola Hevi-duty constant voltage harmonic neutralized transformers will also eliminate harmonics and transform a modified sine into a pure sine wave, but at a cost. The primary windings draw 7 amps no load. That's 840 watts! Under load, the efficiency goes up to 92%. My latest attempt to vanquish my microwave will involve designing some electronics to go with my Sola transformer. The circuit I envision will keep the modified sine wave connected and the transformer disconnected unless the current demand exceeds a certain setpoint (signifying the microwave is trying to run). Then the transformer will cut in and the modified sine will cut out until the current drops back below the setpoint.


This got kinda long. Sorry. --Tom

« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 09:47:04 PM by (unknown) »