Author Topic: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/breaker box  (Read 11293 times)

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AKR

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wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/breaker box
« on: February 06, 2006, 10:59:12 AM »
i've emailed tripplite twice now and they have not responded, so i'm asking here. my inverter manual's wire sizing chart says to use 8 gauge wire for connecting the batteries. i'm assuming this is for connecting between the batteries AND the inverter? what gauge do i use to connect the inverter to the breaker box? thanks, Reuben
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 10:59:12 AM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2006, 04:23:55 AM »
Did you give TripLite the same information you gave us?  It would help if a person gave some clues rather than rely on the clairvoyance of the audience.  


HINT - model, voltage, watts............


Ron

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 04:23:55 AM by (unknown) »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

AKR

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2006, 05:02:12 AM »
maybe you failed to read this before you posted, so i'll paste it for you:


"Please be nice. Flame wars and rude comments are NOT tolerated here, and the offending comments will be deleted immediately. Keep in mind that sarcastic and cynical comments that you might make in person (with a smile on your face!) often appear to be very rude on a discussion board."


i think being a smarty-pants to someone who doesn't know you need certain information falls under that rule. i thought all inverters gave out 120 volts, so i figured every inverter used the same gauge of wire to the breaker box. i also didn't see why you'd need the power specs to tell me whether or not the connection between batteries and to the inverter needed the same gauge.


tripplite aps2424



  1. watts continuous power
  2. x 12 volt concorde AGM  batteries.


i'm sure you'll ridicule me for anything else i'm missing.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 05:02:12 AM by (unknown) »

drdongle

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Re: wire gage for batteries/inverter/breaker box
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2006, 05:55:43 AM »
Simple rule of thumb, use the largest gage you can afford. So if you buy some #8 for the batteries, this will work fine for the line to the ckt breakers ( thought smaller will work, 400 watts is less than 4 amps at 120 VAC. You could use #14 if that was all you had. Incidentally the rule of thumb applies to the battery line as well, #8 would be the minimum to use, so larger would be better if you can afford it and if there is any distance between the inverter and the batteries.

Unfortunately these manuals often often assume a lever of knowledge and experience that many buyers simply don't have.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 05:55:43 AM by (unknown) »

kitno455

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2006, 07:29:52 AM »
dont take ron personally. he treats everyone that way.


the issue is not the voltage, its the CURRENT, thats why we have to know more info.


allan

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 07:29:52 AM by (unknown) »

DanB

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2006, 07:52:55 AM »
Im quite surprised they suggest 8 gage, I expect you might be misunderstanding something there.  If its a 12V -> 120V inverter, then @ full load (240 watts) its going to be drawing 200 amps off your batteries.  The distance of the line affects things some, but I'd not run anything less than 1/0 and heavier would be better.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 07:52:55 AM by (unknown) »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

DanB

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2006, 08:02:25 AM »
woops - my error was pointed out.  I meant peak output 2400 watts (not 240 like I posted)

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 08:02:25 AM by (unknown) »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

TomW

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2006, 09:58:34 AM »
AKR;


Ron is our local curmudgeon. However, he is right we needed more information to adequately assist you in finding the solution you asked for.


I assure you he is worse in person and treats everyone the same even dogs.




Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 09:58:34 AM by (unknown) »

TomW

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2006, 10:35:14 AM »
AKR;


Sorry forgot to respond to your AC wiring side question.


Anymore I strictly use #10 copper Romex [Romex is pretty standard for house wiring here] for the AC side. It is common and should handle almost any inverter most of us use. You could probably go smaller maybe down to #12 or #14 for 2400 watts [20 amps] but with wire I figure it is always better to oversize than cut corners. Again the length of the run factors in, also longer runs need larger wire. Especially if you ever upgrade.


Cheers.


TomW

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 10:35:14 AM by (unknown) »

stevesteve

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Re: wire gage for batteries/inverter/breaker box
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2006, 10:51:43 AM »
Ah... The Lever of Knowledge, to be wielded alongside the Club Hammer of Persuasion by all mechanics!


Sorry DrD I couldn't resist ;-)

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 10:51:43 AM by (unknown) »

Experimental

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Re: wire gauge
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2006, 11:30:50 AM »
Hi Reuben,

   Tried to post here, but it failed -- will try again !!

    From my Triplite manual, they recommend 2/0 wire on 2000 and 2400 watt units, and #4 wire on the smaller !!

   Under NO circumstances, would I ever use #8 !!

   I recommend #10 SO cord, from the unit, to the bereaker box -- nothing less !!

   On my 2000 watt unit, I have a 250 amp fuse, between the batteries and the unit and all batt interconnections, are 2/0 cables ...

   If you need any more info from the manual, just email me, Bill H....
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 11:30:50 AM by (unknown) »

wdyasq

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not my problem
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2006, 02:16:49 PM »
'Before posting, please do some research on your question by using the search function and reading the FAQs. Your question may have already been answered multiple times, and if you receive a grouchy reply that's usually the reason.'


No grouch here, just asking questions. If one does a bit of research one can avoid posting ignorant and stupid stuff.  But, folks now expect others to be 'nice'. I prefer the truth to keep folks from getting killed or mamed.


But, it's probably your house.  The fire you cause will be your own, the family you kill you probably know too.


Ron

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 02:16:49 PM by (unknown) »
"I like the Honey, but kill the bees"

AKR

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Re: wire gauge
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2006, 04:10:26 PM »
that seems strange. i'm looking at the chart and for 2400 watts @ 8 ft, it says 8 gauge. but from what your manual says and others say, i should go with something at least a little larger, so i think i will. and then the #10 to the breaker box. thanks, Bill, and thanks to others for their NICE replies. Reuben
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 04:10:26 PM by (unknown) »

AKR

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Re: not my problem
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 04:19:57 PM »
i always search before i ask a question. you're mistake was assuming i didn't, and then running off at the mouth, which you continue to do with implying and i'm stupid and ignorant. maybe you'd feel better about yourself if you went somewhere and berated small school children. you enjoy being "smarter" than other people; just imagine how you'd feel on a playground!


i couldn't resist, but now i'm done.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 04:19:57 PM by (unknown) »

Drives

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DIY Wiring for the Uninformed
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2006, 05:27:38 PM »
AKR:


Just a quick note....This statement of yours tells us everything we need to know...remember, this is your statement, not ours....


"i think being a smarty-pants to someone who doesn't know you need certain information falls under that rule. i thought all inverters gave out 120 volts, so i figured every inverter used the same gauge of wire to the breaker box. i also didn't see why you'd need the power specs to tell me whether or not the connection between batteries and to the inverter needed the same gauge."


You performing DIY wiring without understanding the basics of current flow as it relates to wire size may kill you or your family.


The day you fully understand electricity, you will appreciate, and want to THANK Ron for being so straight forward.  


I hope if I ever ask such an uninformed question about a subject where the potential exists for me to kill someone, someone verbally slaps my hand VERY hard!


End of Rant.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 05:27:38 PM by (unknown) »

TomW

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Re: DIY Wiring for the Uninformed
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2006, 05:30:53 PM »
Dean;


Err.. Well said.


T

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 05:30:53 PM by (unknown) »

Experimental

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Re: wire gauge
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 06:05:49 PM »
 Hello again Reuben,

    The problem is #8 gage is only good to 60 amps and 70 for wire type THWN -- you will be drawing as much as 200 amps or more, so again, you will want the 2/0 battery cable..

    The 10 gage SO cord, is good for 30 amps (120 volts x 30amps =3600 watts) so you will be fine on the power to your breaker box..

    Hope all goes well, and if you need a fuse and fuse block, there is a good one available from NAPA auto parts dealers for RV,s at a fairly good price..

   happy wireing, Bill H.......
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 06:05:49 PM by (unknown) »

henjulfox

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Re: wire gauge
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2006, 09:19:14 PM »
I may see the source of the confusion. You say the inverter is the APS2424 but you list it as 400 watts continuous. The APS2424 is rated at 2400 watts. I don't have the charts in front of me but 8 gauge is about right for 400 watts, 2/0 is in the right neiborhood for 2400 watts.


Wire size depends on the amps it must carry. Volts X Amps = watts, or Amps = Watts/Volts. Therefore on the DC side the cable must carry 2400 Watts/24 Volts = 100 Amps. On the AC side the wire must carry 2400 watts/120 volts = 20 Amps. A quick search on the internet will give you the wire size rated for 100 and 20 amps. Distance is important as well, shorter is better, particularly with the expensive DC cable.

-Henry

« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 09:19:14 PM by (unknown) »

nothing to lose

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2006, 06:05:39 AM »
Not being rude but I think someone should mention

 DC is harder to get through a wire than AC.

 And lower voltages are harder to get through a wire than high voltage.

The larger the wire the easier the power flows.

The longer the wire the harder it is for the power to flow.


Based on the beginning of this post and other comments I think that should be explained also perhaps. I did it as simple as I could.


So a long wire for 120VAC can be very small compared to a short wire for 12Vdc, even though basically it's almost the same 2400watts total, the power itself is not the same.


2400watts at 120Vac is 20amps AC, it's 200amps at 12Vdc, or 100amps at 24Vdc, 50amps at 48Vdc, but it is all still 2400watts. A different wire size would be required for each though.


"my inverter manual's wire sizing chart says to use 8 gauge wire for connecting the batteries. i'm assuming this is for connecting between the batteries AND the inverter? what gauge do i use to connect the inverter to the breaker box?"


I beleave from that statement before doing anything else alot of research is needed, and some advice.


Do you know anything about neutral and ground bonding? Stop right now if the answer in NO is my advice! If you don't know about it then you don't know if it will fry your particular inverter either probably.


You have stated straight out yourself you don't know the first thing about inverters.


"i thought all inverters gave out 120 volts, so i figured every inverter used the same gauge of wire to the breaker box. i also didn't see why you'd need the power specs to tell me whether or not the connection between batteries and to the inverter needed the same gauge."


As others have already mentioned it's not just 120 volts that matters.

Inverters come from 75watts to 5000watts, actually well over that also but not normally for home use. My big one is 5,0000 watts with 10,000watts surge. It is not just the 120V that matters it the watts/amps also on the AC side and how long the wire will be. And the power specs are super important for the battery wires. It could have been 12V, 24V, 48V, as the 3 most common made voltages. How many watts and at what voltage determines how many amps the wire must carry at full load, very small wire for a 12V 75watt inverter, very large wire for my 12V 5,000watt inverter or I can use two sets of cables of a lesser size but still large.

Also inverters are not all 120V, they do make 240Vac inverters also. I think the AIMS I was thinkng of buying was 12Vdc to 220AC and 3750watts.


All of the above does make a large differnce on many things. Then there are also Modwave inverters and Sine wave inverters, but that does not matter much as far as wires sizes.


Again not being rude to you, just pointing out the many things about inverters you don't know based on what you said.


Such things do make me wonder though how you decided to buy a 2400watt inverter in the first place. You probably do know more than it sounds like, often hard to tell just reading postings.


Have you checked the loads you want to run, sized the battery bank to supply the power to run that load? Or did you buy a couple batteries and a salesman hand you an inverter he wanted to sell and you just figure it will run your house without checking anything?


Just buying a couple batteries and a decent inverter is fine to get started and just use a few items, but you want to connect to your house, that may not be fine.

 Are you going to run the fridge, how many amps is that? What's the start up surge amps.

 A coffee maker? Thats maybe 1500watts for the coffee pot while cooking or heating.

 How about a micro wave?? What size and power used, not cooking power as stated on the box, that's allot less than really required to operate it.


I point such things out not to be rude but maybe save you some problems if you hadn't checked it out yet. AFTER you re-wire your house is not a good time to find out it won't work as planned. Well, unless your without any power anyway, then it would be some power which is better than none.


I had a freind that saw what all I was doing with inverters about a year ago, so he went out and bought himself one. He was complaining about his being junk, it did not work right, and all kinds of problems. Well I checked it out for him. The problem was he had a 300watt inverter plugged into a cigarette lighter socket with a 12' extension cord and his 1/2" drill would not work.

 Other than that he was a pretty smart person.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 06:05:39 AM by (unknown) »

Gary D

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connecting batteries/inverter/breaker box
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2006, 10:12:27 AM »
Fellows, the unit in question is linked below. the surge rating is 4800 watts. It's a 24 volt unit... Gary D.

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=174

Hope this link will help if I typed it correctly, if anyone is still willing to help. Not sure if he wants to charge the batteries with grid power, but assuming he does(that's what it's primary funnction is). Being a mod. sine wave ups unit, I wonder if the output should go to a dedicated sub panel?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 10:12:27 AM by (unknown) »

henjulfox

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Re: connecting batteries/inverter/breaker box
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2006, 06:54:01 PM »
Well son-of-a-!, it does say that the 2400 watt, 24 volt version can use 8 gauge wire for runs up to 8' for the battery to inverter connection. I disagree with the manual.

-Henry
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 06:54:01 PM by (unknown) »

Experimental

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Re: wire gauge for connecting batteries/inverter/b
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2006, 05:39:43 PM »
   GEEZE Reuben,

   After reading this again -- I see the 400 watts you mentioned -- I,m still wondering how I got the impression it was a 2400 watt unit !!??

   Therefore, if indeed, it is a 400 watt unit -- that 8 gage would be just fine and I,m sorry if we led you astray !!

   Other than that, I hope in the future, you don,t receive any of the redicule I read here !!

  My best to you and yours, Bill H.......
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 05:39:43 PM by (unknown) »