ford starter solenoid

[BrianK]

I have an old onan 10kw military genny that uses the windings in the genny head to start it. It uses what looks like a ford starter solenoid to energize the windings. Now the problem I had to replace the solenoid, so I went to the autoparts store and bought one it worked one time so back to the store i went this time bought the better one, again only started it one time. I think that the amount of amps that it takes to turn this beast is burning the contacts off of the cheap solenoid. Is there any good starter solenoids that can do this job?

 p.s. I couldnt find any info of the amp ratings of the cheap solenoids

 any info would be great

.

[Nando]

Information from you would even greater -- you just say nothing about what you need.

Detail the "everything" you have, model, the voltage, frequency etc, etc and more etc,

This way, somebody will be able to assist you, the way you posted, you are assuming that the group is formed by a large number of " Mandrakes the Magicians" with vast knowledge on military 10 kw power equipment.

Nando

[BrianK]

nando

 yes i did say what i needed in the last words before the p.s.

I'm not sure what u r not seeing in the post But I guess I did forget to say that it was a 12v starting system

 But what I am looking for is a solenoid that is better equipt to handle what looks to me like a very high amp starting process,

.

[racer]

Briank

I can't think of any solenoids off hand. Most all Ford starters take at least 150 amps to turn over an engine. So that could give you a starting point for your power rating.

[jonas302]

Is the solinoid still ckicking when it is broke? As an auto mech solinoids are ussually blamed but rarly the problem a stock one can take the amps to smoke 6 ga cable some have diodes built into the coil ciruit does your unit have positive ground common on older equip? If so that could be the problem. If thats the case try to order one for an older tractor. Let me know waht you find

Jonas

[icicle]

You might want to go even bigger than a ford.

I would get one used for a semi truck.

also I would go for a 24vdc they can handle a little for amps( so I think)

[Nando]

I read the whole message and you said a solenoid.

I still say: inform completely about your Onan 10KW military genny (generator)- no information is available to really assist you.

You know what you need and you have the equipment there, we do not.

and please this site is visited by many people that their native language is not English, therefore refrain writing in short hand (phonetics), it is NOT good.

You would not like it if I write to You in Spanish, French, Italian or Portuguese.

Nando

[jimjjnn]

Sounds like you have another problem. Ford solenoids can take a lot of current. You are putting more current through the solenoids than they can take. I think I would find out what the problem is before trying another one. By pass the solenoid connections with a big battery and LONG jumper cables in case the battery goes from too much current and see if it tries to rotate.

[thefinis]

Starter solenoids hate low voltage it makes them spot weld little bumps of metal between the plates that then keeps them from making good contact. Check the volts from your battery or try a new/different battery. Low voltage means high amps which is probably eating the solenoids.

Will it start when you short across the connections? Even with a dead solenoid? Does it make any noises when trying after the first start?

As has been said the dead solenoid is probably a side effect not the main cause. Check the battery, the wiring connections and if all else fails the windings in the genny head for shorts.

Finis

[Norm]

Was the genny working up until the time you had to replace the solenoid?

 the windings are taking too much current....

they may be shorted.

 A solenoid can handle a large current such as a

cold engine with thick oil something like 800 amps.

   ( :>/ Norm.

[WindHarvester]

Nando,

Are you like this in your everyday life or are you just rude to folks in this forum?

Lonnie

[Countryboy]

Stupid is as stupid does.

I'm a native English speaker.  I genuinely feel sorry for non-native English speakers who attempt to help English speakers who have pathetically poor English skills, and are too lazy to provide enough useful information to obtain a practical answer.

I would certainly hope Nando is exactly in real life as he is on here.  Only idiots enjoy answering people who ask half questions.

With the information provided, I have concluded the answer to the original question is:

Yes, the sky is blue.

[TomW]

CB;

Don't forget, it needs 10:00-20 bias ply tires [tubeless].

T

[WindHarvester]

I like to keep an open mind, Maybe this fellow is only producing enough energy for his necessities because his generator is failing, this giving him limited time on the internet so he makes things brief and cuts straight to the point and forgets a detail or maybe two.

Lonnie from Ohio

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Sounds like the coils in the selonoid are burning out.  Works the first time (because the starter pulls down the voltage and/or it takes a few moments to fry the coil and by then the engine is running.)  Doesn't work a second time.  Replace selonoid with a fresh one and repeat.

You can check this easily by checking for voltage at the selonoid's control terminals when you're NOT cranking - or removing it from circuit and checking for continuity through the coil.

What voltage is the starter battery?  Are you using an automotive starter relay with a 12v coil on an engine with a 48v starter battery?

Also:  Perhaps there is a problem with the charging system or wiring that puts a big voltage on the starter selonoid's coil when the engine revs up.

[Countryboy]

I'm wary of open minds.  Open containers have a difficult time holding anything.  When you try to put something in, it falls right back out.

A mind like a steel trap - now that's something worth having.

TomW, does it have to be tubeless?  Folks can win a Darwin Award with a widowmaker.

Oh well, I suppose he could get by with a 10.00-20 tubeless, as long as he isn't using a retread for a steering tire.

[terry5732]

Why do you think it is a 12 volt system. Military standard is 24 volts.

[WindHarvester]

I'm not sure what to say so I will quote Albert Einstein.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

Lonnie from Ohio

[dinges]

Did I miss something? Has Nando been rude? I reread and couldn't find anything rude in there. No swear words. No foul language. No blasphemy.

So, if by 'rude' you meant "offensive in manner or action" then I disagree with you.

If by 'rude' you meant he wasn't warm, fuzzy, cozy and supportive to the original poster, then I agree with you.

Then again, maybe he -is- most supportive by stating that more information is needed to -really- help the original poster. Without full details one can only provide answers 'shooting from the hip'. This is great fun, I admit. And might be perceived at first glance to be 'helpful'. But whether one hits the intended target is an entirely different matter.

[outback]

if you have been working on the start switch wirering make sure you dont have current at the soliniod swith aux terminal after starting:keeps your solinoid activated win not needed

[richhagen]

I don't know a lot about this stuff, but a lot of the old military stuff is 24V.  If you were to dump 24V across a 12V winding, the amps would go high and likely burn up the winding.  You say your putting 12V across it, it would be interesting to know if the contacts or the coils failed.  But as Nando did mention, the make and model of the generator, how the starting battery is rigged and such might be helpful.  I think the communication barrier is to some extent the translation software he uses is imperfect.  I suspect that if I read and posted to boards in a different language I would find it difficult to nearly impossible myself.  Rich

[Waterlogged]

Not everything that looks like a Ford solenoid is a Ford solenoid! Look at the schematic diagram of the generator, look in the replacement solenoid manufacturer's buyer's guide. If you don't have a schematic diagram, take apart the original if you didn't already throw it away. How is it wired inside?  There are many different solenoids that look the same! The wrong one may not work, or it may only work once. As far as Nando goes, if he is like me, then he may get very frustrated trying to help someone who won't analyze the problem, and give all pertinent information. When speaking, face to face, it is easy to miss details, and easy to ask for more info. When writing, it is easy to reread your question, and make sure it makes sense, and is complete. If you are unable to help someone help you, then they may not be able to help, or may make things harder for you. A Ford solenoid can survive the high current of a bad starter motor. This can be whatever the battery is rated for. Have you looked at the cold cranking amps of a car battery lately?

If all else fails, use the rope!

Rod

[BrianK]

Wow i didnt want to start a war

 it will crank and start when jumped I was told by someone a while back that it was 12v who knows they could have been wrong. like i said it started it once now all i get is a click

.

[Norm]

  Do you mean you are paralleling the jumper battery with the in place battery?

        ( :>) Norm

[Norm]

  Do you mean you are paralleling the jumper battery with the in place battery?

        ( :>) Norm

[BrianK]

Ok i think i know whats going on the solenoid isnt turning off fast enough after this thing starts, the windings that it excite's is becoming a power producer as soon as the gen gets started no test numbers yet, but i am guessing that i need to stop the voltage from back feeding the start solenoid. do they make a diode big enough? I will post some numbers as soon as i get them.

.

[BrianK]

norm

 no sorry i jumped the solenoid

.

[BrianK]

it is reaching about 29v once started

.

[Gordy]

Lonnie,

TOO true !!! I'm with you!

Another one goes "If you don't have anything good to say Keep your big mouth shut!!!"

I would be kicked off this site if I spouted off every time I thought someone was being rude or stupid or both. SO I practice the above statment ALOT !!!

What realy burns my shorts is some people here don't read and comprehend (Skimming sucks) a post before answering the overwhelming urge to post a reply. Stating that some one should do this or that, when if they had compently read the first post they would have seen that it had already been done.

That said this is too good of a site to let the above mentioed people drive me from it.

Cheers,

Gordy

[Norm]

Whew ...my head is swimming on this one but ....

okay   the original didn't have a blocking

diode....this solenoid shouldn't need one either

....why did you have to replace the original

solenoid?

  I hate to keep dogging you like this, but I can

stick with this problem .

  The coil isn't suppose to be a circuit with your winding anyway.

   Try using a seperate battery to energize the

solenoid.

         Norm.

[BrianK]

I think I have it figured out I found a wire that was connecting with another wire keeping the starter solenoid on

 thank u and some others for the info u posted it got my brain thinking in the right direction

.

[Norm]

 You're welcome Brian...wish I had half the projects working that you have ....so far so good

eh?

       Have Fun !

           ( :>) Norm.