240 volt inverter issue

[dscheckman]

Hello All, even in our drought conditions my micro hydro system is working great. I've been using an APC matrix 5000 UPS as an inverter and while it works fine it has a huge idle load. I was forewarned from many posts here that it would. It was so much cheaper I thought it was a good way to start while I see how well the system works.  As the power from the hydro increases this fall I will be leaving the UPS/inverter on for longer and longer periods of time . We are on the grid . At 100 watts input from the hydro , 2400 watts per day , I turn on the inverter when I get home from work , power a bunch of loads, turn it off when I've used about 2400 watts from the batteries or when I go to bed. [I often don't use the full 2400] When the input is up to its 350 watts max I have to leave the inverter on all the time so I can utilize the power generated. At the idle load of the UPS I'll lose almost 1/3 of the input to operating the UPS. The UPS is set up for 240 volt output which I have running to a Gentran transfer switch at the entrance panel. Its the type of transfer switch that controls separate circuits , so I just switch the circuits back and forth between grid and hydro [batteries] as conditions dictate. Alright, my question already. If I spring for a new generation inverter such as the magnum ms-ae 4448 will that inverter allow me to control the grid / hydro interface the same way? Can I run the 240 volts out of the magnum to the transfer switch at the entrance panel and control the circuits as I do now? Note that while I have the capability I do not have grid power plugged in to the UPS. If the hydro goes out and I need to charge the batteries I could plug in the UPS and charge them [slowly] while unplugged from the transfer switch. I would not have to use the battery charging function of the magnum inverter unless the hydro went and the batteries were discharged. I could unplug it from the transfer switch as needed. Thanks for any help or advice.

David

[scottsAI]

Dscheckman,

Good work on the hydro.

Looking over the spec of the MSAE4448

http://store.altenergystore.com/Inverters/Off-Grid-No-Utility-Needs-Batteries/3000-to-5500-Watts/Mag
num-MS-AE-4448-Inverter-Charger/p5839/

Search Mode (with remote) 0.2 ADC = 10.4 watts (assuming 52v)

No Load (120 VAC output with remote) 0.5 ADC = 26 watts.

You claim UPS uses 1/3 of 100 or 33 watts, I have four APC smartUPS 3000, they each draw 47watts. From the line with no load, I can't imagine as an inverter they would use any less? I do have APC smartUPS 5000 not used yet.

MSAE4448; that is only 50% lower stand by power than the UPS for $2,105.19 cost?

What about using a smaller UPS, the APC smartUPS 1000 uses 24 watt (Kill-o-watt meter)

Probably a good time to ask what your long term goals are?

I would change the generator on the Hydro to an induction motor and backfeed the power directly to the utilities, Netmetering. At 2.4kwhr/day (to 6) nobody will notice. Save all the inefficiency and cost with the battery and UPS etc. I know it wont give you the same warm fuzzes that running on the battery will give, but it will give you a better return on your investment. Use the battery and UPS if the grid goes down. I do. Good luck.

Have fun,

Scott.

[dscheckman]

Actually the APC Matrix 5000 draws a whopping 100watts +/- with no load. I meant almost 1/3 of my peak power of 350 watts. The odd thing is the less power I have coming in the less inefficient the UPS is because I only leave it on around 4 hours a day. While I have grid power our house shares a meter which is over 600 feet away , we are just a circuit on an entrance panel. I think Net metering would be difficult and expensive if not impossible.

David

[scottsAI]

Dscheckman,

Since I do not know your situation, netmetering may not be possible. With that said.

Induction motor can be connected (almost) directly to power line, plug it into an outlet. Motor will get excitation from power line, as long as the motor is spun faster it will generate power out. No power to full power RPM varies by about 3%. No other electronics necessary. Good idea to put a reversing power detector relay to make sure it never runs as a motor creating a hug electric bill!

I though the UPS power was too small considering mine use 47 watts from the mains for a 3kw. Expected yours to draw close to 90 watts.

For the cost, I would seriously look into an induction motor, save UPS and battery for a power failure.

Have a much more efficient system with inverter and battery out of the loop.

Have fun,

Scott.

[Bruce S]

dscheckman;

  Another thought, since it is a UPS that has on the back of it connectors that will allow you to connect extra batteries. I would go the route of adding batteries as you have them available.

There is a small dos based program tha you'll need to run meaning you'll also need to connect a computer the the Matrix, but both are easy tasks.

The program, downloadable from APCC.com will tell the internal memory that you have more batteries and to use them, along with the internal ones, as one complete set. The

The connection is merely a null modem cable and the software will also allow you to fine tune it's control which includes output power, alarms system shut down and even how much time you have left on your system before the batteries are depleated.

If they do not have those available , let me know I can dig ours out and zip one to you if necessary.

You will also need to maintain the external voltages as they are inside the unit , which If memory serves me right these are 48V, and you can add tons of external batteries. :-))

Hope this helps!!

Bruce S

Of course this is not the most effecient use, but sure does make sure you have a pure sine-wave!!