Wind+Solar charge controller question

[zinguvok]

Basically, I am starting to put together the elements of an off-grid RE system to be deployed in a few years once I get a location for it. I'd like to spend some money and get a good high-capacity charge controller now rather than having to upgrade in the future. The only issue for me right now is that I'm not sure if I can charge with a windmill and a PV bank both feeding into the same charge controller, most likely a Trace C40 or C60. I'm familiar with basic electronics, but my experience mostly pertains to simple wiring and logic. It seems to me like it ought to work, provided there are blocking diodes on the windmill (which there'd have to be if I built one of the Otherpower 10' mills as I'd like to) and on the PV panels. Thoughts? Experiences?

[snowcrow]

 Have you decided what voltage your system will be, 12v, 24v, or 48v?  If you are planning to use a inverter for producing AC, you may think about going 24v or 48v.

 If you are planning use wind and solar together you must use the C40 or C60 in "Diversion Mode", routing excess power from the battery bank to a "Dump Load". Windmills must be under load continually, or they over speed!

 More information is needed about the system size and voltage to get the answers you're looking for.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[getterdone]

i think what he is asking is, can he use one charge controller for both wind, and solor [tied to one charge controller].

[CmeBREW]

Yes, that is what most people do is the "diversion mode".  That was confusing to me also until I bought one (C60)and read the manual.

The panels and mill do not "feed into the controller".  The controller (C35/C40/c60) simply 'Bleeds off' the extra power from the batteries to keep them from over-charging and thereby causes a proper 3-stage charge procedure.

The solar panels and windmill hook DIRECTLY to the batteries and the C40/C60 branches off from the battery bank to bleed off the excess power THRU the controller and into the 'Dump load' hooked to the controller.

[zinguvok]

Yes, this is my question. Sorry, it was a little late at night when I wrote the original post...

[zinguvok]

CmeBREW:

Ahh, really? I had no idea this was how it worked -- although now that you say it it makes perfect sense. So it seems that it should work the way I wanted to set it up, with both the windmill and the panels feeding into the same battery bank, with blocking diodes. Thanks!

Snow Crow:

I am planning on the highest voltage I can swing, for efficiency reasons -- probably 48v. I'd like to have a pretty beefy 115/230V capable inverter, but right now I just have a Xantrex 1kW 115V unit. I'd have to upgrade anyway for the higher input voltage. The windmill is in the more distant future (1-2yrs) anyway -- I have PV panels now that need hooked up. (Grin) I also am not quite clear on whether I can run a higher input voltage (IE 48v from panels/turbines) to a lower-voltage battery bank (say 24V) with the controller set up in diversion mode.

So basically it looks like a C60 will probably be the winner. Heck, with the excess capacity I'll have I might be able to add some microhydro (depending on final location) or more wind turbines than I was originally thinking. Thanks, everyone! Further thoughts are much appreciated.

[ghurd]

You might look at the TS60 also.

G-

[SparWeb]

Looking at the Xantrex (Trace) C40 or C60 is a good place to start, but you should compare those to the similar offerings from Outback and others.  The Outback offers MPPT tracking (that's Maximum Power Point Tracking), meaning it's more interactive than a Trace C60, which simply controls voltage by dumping current.  Xantrex has responded with a MPPT controller of their own.  No opinion on preference.

I have a C40 because it wasn't expensive, and it will support 48V, if I ever decide to do so.  For what I have today, I would probably do better with an Outback.

Here's a catalog page that you might want to use:

http://www.alt-energy.com/online-solar-catalog.html

[CmeBREW]

Yes, I second what Steven said.  I have the C60 which is OK but it only goes up to 24 volt systems.  I wish now I had spent a few more dollars and got the Outback MX-60 (mppt,etc.) which will do up to 48v system.  It would be best to go with at least a 48v system for an entire house since it is more efficient. Might want to even study 120v systems which I know nothing about.  You should spend some time studiing the different components to get what is best for you.

[wooferhound]

-quote-

"with both the windmill and the panels feeding into the same battery bank, with blocking diodes"

use blocking diodes on each solar panel but

use bridge rectifiers on the windmill or hydro or you will only get half the power

[brightmae]

yes, our friends have wind solar hybrid with one charging bank system, I am very looking forward its good result.

[zinguvok]

The Outback is a bit out of my price range. The points about 48v are good, though -- I had not realized that while the C40 does 48v the C60 does not! This takes it out of the running for me. The TS60 that Ghurd linked looks very good to me though, especially with the RS232 connector on it. 48v, multipurpose, etc... I think it is the one I will get. Any opinions on the reliability of Morningstar products...?

[DamonHD]

My tiny Morningstar controller does what it says on the tin and has survived various minor idiocies on my part.  Proud owner for under a year though.

Rgds

Damon

[ghurd]

I never used the TS, but I use a lot of SG-4s and SS-Xs.  I like them.

Reliability seems related to the user doing something wrong.

I recall Hugh Piggott wondering why people still use the C-X when the TS-X is available.

G-

[zinguvok]

Actually I've decided to get two TS45s, one to use in diversion mode and one in solar charging mode... not too much more expensive and it'll give me a ton of capacity at 48V, plus redundancy, just in case. And also a Suncharger, for playing around with.