whole house idea?

[A6D9]

I can't afford a full house system at the moment.

But I do have a nice Stream in the back yard I plan on tapping next summer.  No idea on flow yet but will look into it.

My plan was since I can't really afford a full home system.  Could one just invest in a big inverter to do the whole house.  

Then a batery and RE charging system.  

Then seeing as my personal productions won;t be enought to supply demmand.

Could I plug in a grid tie charger and charge the batery with that.  This will allow me to avoid having to run 2 sets of wiring, (some for RE others for grid)

and all i would have to do is when i see the bat going low, flick the grid tie charger on.

I understand that I will lose some power due to efficiancies.  but does anyone know how much?  ballpark.  

That way if i was to do this, I could save on grid charges.  And as $$ flows in invest in more solar, possibly more hydro.  and what not.

[bob g]

i will take a stab at this one

efficiency of such a system

good charger to plug into the grid, let say 90%

good inverter to convert your dc batteries to ac, lets say 90%

battery charging efficiency, lets put that one at 85%

so ...

.90 *.90 * .85 = .6885 or approx 69% overall efficiency

this does not account for other losses such as cable and line losses which might be another hit of 2-3 percent,, so you might very well be in the 65% range.

now then to calculate what this does to your power cost from the grid,

100/65%=1.538 or round off to about 1.5 times the base cost,

in other words you have added 50% to the cost of your power from the power company

and you are putting wear and tear on your system components, things like batteries should be ammortized out, and given a cost per day, or kwatt/hr, or some measure as well, this will add significantly to your true cost of you system.

bob g

[A6D9]

thank you very much for that math and info.

In essance it is a bad idea.  

back to the drawing board....lol

I'll figure somethgin out before closing date on the hosue....oct 10th

[zeusmorg]

 So you're buying a new house?

 You may look into adding Photovoltaic solar panels to your mortgage, most loan companies will allow this..and some at decent rates too.

Just an idea.

[A6D9]

i thought about that, but it's not worht it...my spot is in the woods and i would need to cut too many trees on such short notice.

but the hydro is there...so that is my #1 project.

going to shoot for payign off the home in less then 7 years..and then upgraded the rest as $$ allows it.  

[zeusmorg]

 Well hydro is one of the best forms of energy to convert to electric, if you have a constant running stream.

 Once you determine the flow, head, etc, then you can start designing the hydro that best suits it.

[A6D9]

that's my only concern, i know i got flow i can hear it...and it's only about 30 feet from my back door.

but head will be another issue.

I'm going to need to build a damn to capture all the flow and give myself a little head.

I'm not worried bout biological inpact as the stream is a spring..and no fish in it....

it's about a car lenght wide and looks to be about 1-2 feet deep.

idealy I want to be able to get 3-400 wattes...but I'm guessign it'll be more like 1-200

[RogerAS]

No disrespect intended to anyone.

I would not borrow a single penny until this bank freak-out session ends. Who knows who will hold a note on you a year from now or what is valuable now will be then. They may not play nice.

I am more than a little concerned.

[DamonHD]

As someone who has been watching this from a somewhat uncomfortable position on the inside of the current banking trauma (Lehman Brothers was my main client on and off for well over a decade until June) I think that that is sound advice.

No one knows what the lending landscape is likely to be for the next year or so, so though a small commercial or retail loan is unlikely to be called in if the lender has a bad time, getting a loan at all could be hard or expensive so we should all hold/hoard a little more easy-to-get-at savings in cash and in a number of institutions for a while.

On the other hand, if you have money on hand above that that you can invest in a small system of your own, now is not a bad time IMHO, and you might be helping keep the wolf from the door of someone in the renewables industry.  B^>

I'm putting money to one side towards a major extension of my PV system as soon as I've restored my savings.

Rgds

Damon

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

If you're not trying to cover for a grid outage it makes sense to backfeed the grid and just put all the power in a pot to reduce your energy costs.  However that usually costs far more than it benefits.

IMHO the more reasonable approach, if you don't have enough to run the whole show, is to convert the circuits for your most critical loads to a RE-powered, grid-backed system.  Refrigerator, emergency lights, fan power for fuel-based heating equipment, etc.  Then you're OK in an outage of either the grid or your RE equipment - and you can afford to pay the premium for running just these loads through your "UPS" when you have an RE shortfall.

Hydro has the advantage that it's much more reliable, level, and predicatble than wind and solar.  So it's easier to plan with and doesn't require a lot of energy storage.

[SteveCH]

Well, I have no real-world experience in hydro. However, as with wind and pv, you got it right when you said you need to figure out how much head/flow you have. [For wind, it would be terrain, wind records, and how much tower/generator you can afford; with pv, how much solar exposure you have, etc., and so on.]  Until you [we] know that, it is difficult to offer any realistic and useful opinions on this. However, even not knowing, you will likely not save any money in what you are proposing at the start. You may not break even, if you are basing things on how much grid energy you offset or save. But it isn't a reason to forget it, just get your info' together. It may be that you can put in a system that will pay off. And, if it were me, it might be worth it anyway just to have a source of your own electricity even if you don't break even on the cost for a while.

[A6D9]

i totally agree....

i ran some #'s in my head....and on paper...

and i decided that even IF i cannot bresak even I"m ok with that, as i will be makign my small part to the plannet...

i'm just needeing to calculate what i cna afford to do and not do.

I seen these tiny 200 watts grid tie inverter on ebay....

might just go that route...i can paralel them as well....so if i start with 1...and then as my system gets bigger add another and so on...and at the end of it all...i want to have full off grid when i produce enought

i really need to survey the site more for the hydro and then look at my options....

idealy i would love to make 3-400 wattes..that would fit in perfect.  but I'm not sure if that would be possible or not....more research is needed...

I will keep you all in the loop..and after i move get pics for you all  

i can;t complain with the house...it has 1.5 accres  is 4 rooms and in great shape for $89 000