Hydroponic Garden

[dave ames]

hey gang,

sure do enjoy the wealth of information and stimulating discussions that go on around here. especially blown away by some of the projects folks share!  from the tiny solar AA battery chargers to the big 17 foot machines there is fun to be had on every scale and at every level of abilities.. it's all good!

thought i'd take a stab at a diary entry to share a look into a fun little ongoing project of putting together a solar powered hydroponic garden. afraid my attempts at a proper documentation process are lacking and my 'splaining skills are wanting..(one of those level of abilities things)... but let's give it a go just the same?

the goal here, besides big time fun, is to have a small, stand alone, automated hydroponic system to explore a curiosity i got bit with.

i was surprised to read about the use of hydroponic growing methods in many european houses to grow indoor flowers, vegetables and decorative plants- further reading revealed there are some huge (legal and otherwise) growing operations using these methods! ..i had never heard of such a thing!  ..therefore the curiosity.

hydroponics/hydroculture refers to growing plants in an inert soil-less medium where plants are given everything they need to grow with a regulated scheduled feeding solution and proper lighting. we are outdoors here so the lighting is ready..that part was easy. 

our controls are worked up as modular sub-systems as we will disassemble everything at the end of the season and perhaps use the equipment for the next build..whatever that might be.

our battery operated sub-systems include fluid pumping of the feeding solution on a timed schedule with metered amounts to each plant. aeration pumping to our solution holding tank run by a ghurd circuit to keep it oxygenated and stirred up..all powered by a 5 watt tracked pv array to charge our 7ah battery that runs everything.

the system controls.


our concrete and gravel garden area. something like this may work for roof tops, "brown fields" and now along the gulf coast 



some guesses on power requirements and production:

feeding pump ~5whs per day..five cycles 2 minutes each 2amps @12v
aeration pump ~20whs per day +/- with all available power 90mA
Ghurd controller ~3whs per day
battery self discharge ~5whs per week
ames tracker ~1whr per month

production of ~30whs per day.. 5 watt pv @ 6hrs peak sun..my site is listed for 7.4hrs in july.

the subject of "how much" usually comes up? not %100 sure..but not THAT much cuz i'm currently in the unemployment line and watching the wallet. we can list the major stuff, ...lots of the odds and ends i had "laying around".LOL 

35 gallon plastic drum..                 FREE at local car wash
intermatic timer #ST01                ~$35ea x2
HF bilge pump #66094                  $15 with coupon
hargraves air pump #k113-21-01     $10 ebay (picked up several)
"signature series" ghurd controller  $12.50
CDT 5 watt pv module                    $35 amazon (several of those around here somewhere)
50 liters hydroton grow medium      $42 local hydroponic shop
hankscraft #3440 12v 1rpm motor    $15 edmund scientific
plastic tubing/connectors                $10 local hydro store
assorted extras                             $50 could be less-might be more?
7ah battery                                   $? not sure where this came from, been beating on it for years..
seaweed fertilizer                          $10 hydroponic store
epsom salts                                 $4 wally world- will have extra
hydrogen peroxide                        $10 wally world-might need more, using 1 quart %3 per 30 gallons
assorted tomato seeds                  $3 ? lots left over, gave away a dozen extra plants.
mini dtv dish mount                       FREE we can find these all the time
other stuff i can't think of                ?


YIKES! i think my time is running out to get this posted before i time out. we can leave it here for now. more pics to come.

kind regards, dave

[Bruce S]

Hello Dave;
Looks like a nice assortment of "stuff". Been doing Hydro for years, several different types. Have learned the hard way a few things like bad bugs  and how quickly they can over run your stuff.
Do you happen to have pictures or a description of your layout?
What lighting system have you decided on? With money in short supply, may be we can help move you along... with suggestions of other stuff that works better or worse.
I like using LEDs to help control plant health but the retail versions are rather expensive so I cludged mine together with LEDs bought then set in a known working arrangement.
Used timers to get them good n healthy then let sunshine help them the rest of the way.
 
Cheers
Bruce S
   

[dave ames]

hi bruce,

thanks for having a look. was hoping you might chime in..have seen some of your hydroponic posts when i became interested in the topic.

ended up opting for a "metered drain to waste" set-up in an attempt to keep it "dummy proof" (said the man in the mirror) was very concerned about PH drift and contanimation in a flooded drainback system/deep water culture type affair.

we started indoors on 3-15 and again on 3-29..was worried about not having enough seedlings  the worries proved unfounded.  light was just CFL's with a 16on 8off lighting and a mix of 6500K and 2700k bulbs. outside now with no supplemental lighting.

you ain't' kidding about the retail ask on those LED grow lights! still about $3/watt but coming down nicely..looks like there is a bright future for LED's as the prices keep coming down. also looks like there is still some good work ahead in customizing the exact spectrum of light for plant/cycle specific applications..yet another advantage of the future of LED growing methods.

a paste up overview of the set-up below



a look at the drip ring and metering valve above

we have our irrigation rings set to deliver ~ 4 ounces of solution per plant per minute of pumping cycle.

i'm very curious if you have experimented with/used hydrogen peroxide as a full time additive in your nutrient mix? the "pie in the sky?" hope here is to use it's properties as an algaecide/fungicide/insecticide/anti foaming/oxygen releasing disinfectant? not asking for much?

in any case we won't let the FTD guy anywhere near these plants!

on the topic of contamination, last year the tomato crop was devastated here in the north east by "early blight",( late blight that attacks early?)- introduced to the region by the big box store seedlings...we may get hit again this year and hope to provide for some preventive measures.

it's all good fun!
cheers, dave

[Bruce S]

Dave;
 It seems the paste up didn't take. Somethings flashed then went away. Could be the pic was oversized? Not sure just yet.
If you can see my email address send me the pic and I'll see where it failed and then post it for you.

In the early days... we went the whole 10 yards of "STUFF". AND found that the food was costing us about $10/lb nice to have mater in winter but ouch!! on pocket book.
My tests for my house where I have learned more on failure than anyone's help(& trust me Wormsway and I were on a first name basis ..)

For the most part it's not harmful in large flow type systems. Large being 80L and above. Ammonia will be a better additive though since it's liquid nitro for the plants and much easier for them to up take plus a bit cheaper and keeps the cats away
  AND starving the tomato plants right after the vines are say 1/2 thick as a #2 pencil will result in a better fruit system. Too much of the feeding keeps them veining out instead of setting fruit.
If you're going to go/stay with HP then go 1/2 what every online yahoo says to use then watch the system.
PH: larger fluid systems can absorb a little PH change and the plants will careless, ours seemed to be able to take a full .5 PH swing without notice to growth or health. I believe they see it as climate changes like normal ground plants would.

WE're on our 2nd year of trying out cheap-O feedings ( meaning buying the not-always-organic Mir**-grow feed and they K-gro or stuff. at 1/4 strength and let feedings go several floodings before even worrying about adding, let the plants tell you when. A droopy leaves signal or slowing growth will tell you to feed, and flush a day or two before new feed is used.

Tomatoes seem to be a forgiving lot except when it come to bugs , we use the 7th generation dish soap plus ammonia solution to keep them under control and everything from outside gets a water bath before coming inside. 

Blight, THIS IS one of the major reason we went to heirloom seeds and seed harvesting from our own crop. Only NEW one we've introduced this year is the yellow boy and that's because we got a clone from a known source.
these BTW: are tasty and meaty very few seeds. tried to take pick of recent harvest but family and grill interceded . YUMMY both  from HP and container grown, container is


Here's the one in the container. We feed it the old HP water. This is a little old we harvested the bigger ones already and not a good pic I can get a better pic tonight if it doesn't show up very well.

Question for you: What do you do with the left over feeding water?
 
There's a website I have saved on my home computer that shows pretty easy step-by-step build of 1st make of LED growing system. Cheap to build and pretty easy, I'll post it here or email it direct to you.
Long winded here so I'll drop off for now.

Cheers
Bruce S

   

[DanG]

Erased a response earlier but now that you asked...

Yes - oxygen is beneficial but beware the preservative-wetting agent in H2O2 is extremely effective at helping deliver nutrients making it easier to burn the plant from over-fertilization.

Hydrogen peroxide as a full time additive in your nutrient mix just allows build up of the preservative-wetting agent, the salts in a nutrient solution will strip the free oxygen away rapidly. The key to H2O2 in a bottle is ultra-pure water and the wetting agent.

The best bet is a lot of aeration of the reservoir with the air pump getting clean filtered air, air pumps get nasty after a few months!

Also, if you are seriously in a fill and forget mode a teeny recirculating UV source (even convection circulation from the UV source heat)

Your photo shows the reservoir being somewhat translucent (white barrel) - Though sun warmed solution is good the light can/will start algae growing along with whatever wee-beasties feed on algae and their by-products... paint or cover/shade the barrel...

[dave ames]

 come one come all.. step right up and get your secret leaping lizard spit and spotted moon bat guano and grow like jacks beanstalk!!

10 yards of "STUFF".... LOL yup, came close! might have fallen for it 20 years ago..not so easy to be had now. probably the same jacks that are selling the 1 meter turbines rated at 5kw.

also find failures an excellent tutor. hey, just think of it. we are our own teachers in many ways? but sure is nice to have someone to point out a road to KNOWN failure and avoid taking it. (the road not the advice)

these comments by bruce and dan are just the sort of heads up we are looking for from folks that have not been near too many ...umm, burning leaves.

"The best bet is a lot of aeration" dan, think you have nailed the first line of defense right there. from the small bits i've digested on these systems it all seems to come down to keeping our solution tank from going "sour" good info on the HP stabilizer/wetting agent..the game plan is/was a solution mix of 1/5th strength of the seaweed and mixing/adding 10 gallons every 3-5days to the 35 gallon holding tank. with a system flush (not the tank) every ten days. (we are plumbed with the required connections and valves) also with that 10 gallons would be 1/3 quart H202, a heaping spoon of epsom salts and a dash of THRIVE B1..fingers crossed   ? or would it be better to go 20 gallons every 6-10 days?..for a bigger % changeover.

"What do you do with the left over feeding water?"  bruce, not sure how this is going to go..plan is/was to not have any waste runoff? hoping for just a moist area under the plants after the water cycles..not sure i can keep things that balanced though? you have got me thinking now about a catch tray for watering other plants! humm..

we will watch the tank closely. (only day 11 here) and the light blocking cover will be deployed at the first sign of sea monkeys and or critters.

thanks guys, dave

PS- was there an actual image upload problem?

[Bruce S]

DAVE;
My BAD  It seems to be the new "measures" we put into action here at work that merely show me a flash of the pic then it just isn't there .

DanG : Good call on the barrel since I couldn't see it from work, very glad you caught that.

By the time you can see the stuff its already in the mix, I was given several opaque 15 gal barrels , very nice , but even for the bit of rain water we catch, I firstly bought primer and had them tint it black, the little critters don't have a chance :-).

Dave, if I may ask where are you located? when summer leads into fall/winter, do you hacve any problems with the little nat/swarm flies outside? if so there is a specific item you can purchase that attracts them to death  and keep them out of the indoor food chain.

Cheers;
Bruce S

[dave ames]

there is no waiting on the light blocking cover then.

i see some heavy plastic sheeting available, black on one side white on thuther' any thoughts on running it black side out now and flipping to white side out ~aug 1st? maybe keeping temps a bit higher now and then block some of the heat in the dog days? ..or it won't work/matter a bit.?

thankfully, we don't get those black flies here in hartford county, (eastern US southington ct) we can see them along the shoreline though..but who would ever want to live there!  especially in a beach house with all that sand and noisy water...a good time to plug my friends band, called "sour grapes" check them out sometime.

also putting together an air intake filter for the aeration pump. never gave it a thought so thanks for the heads up on that. happy so far with the air pump. on a good day it runs ~20  hours. several good sun days in a row and it runs around the clock, we have yet to see the pv push the terminal voltage past 14.4v ..watching closely though.

having fun, dave kb1mzf

[harley1782000]

Is it really expensive to have a hydroponics garden???

[Bruce S]

Is it really expensive to have a hydroponics garden???

Only if you want it to be. There are starter kits than can be purchased ( the Aerogarden) comes to mind as a complete kit that will grow plants nicely and can be found for about $50USD. AND this is a complete kit with goes almost to the point of HAS RON P would say "set it and forget it" in this instance follow the instructions.

I give them out as Christmas gifts .

HOWEVER once you've been bitten by the growing bug ( having herbs and small veggies in winter), you'll then want to move up to full systems.
This is where the $$$ can be snatched from you at an alarming rate. Having an outlet that you can trust is even rarer, once found and with a bit of reading, the winter food can be very rewarding.
 Not just in having herbs and veggies in the dead of winter, with that smug smile as people visit  , but health wise as well.

Hope that helps
Bruce S



 

[TomW]

Never did hydroponics myself but have known a few folks who did.

Everything from turn key systems fully automated and integrated into a greenhouse [commercial level] to one guy who used  plastic trays, 5 gallon buckets, garden hose, river stones and clear building plastic for the "greenhouse". Trays connected to buckets in the bottom with hose he simply raised the buckets to flood the trays filled with stones for growing media then set them on the ground to drain. Repeat as necessary. That whole system wouldn't cost much today even. Labor intensive though.

Just the range I have seen but not tried [yet].

Good Luck with it.

Tom

Edit...

Darned Alsheimers or something

I forgot to mention he used a fish tank aerator stone in the bucket(s) probably to keep it stirred and oxygen rich?

[Bruce S]

Dave;
  Now that I've "adjusted" my ability to see the pics you posted I can say "Yikes!!"
DanG was very coorect, the sun hitting the white barrel needs to be covered. The amount of sun hitting that could certainly gets little greenies growing rather quickly.
I like the use of the cooler .

If you really like DIY do a google on PVC hydroponics system, a link will show up for how-to, its a nice site and will answer a lot of questions for more DIY stuff. In those results you may even notice that NASA.gxx has a link, it too works..

TomW
Fun part of all those is they work. I did the eb-n-flow method which quickly taught me why not to use clear containers. Had a nice batch of algae growing and nearly dead plants.

ALL fun and gives tasty stuff 

Cheers;
Bruce S
 
 

[harley1782000]

I was going to try it at one time, but gave up.  Not sure were it would be a good place to have it.  I have some out buildings but then I would have to heat them.  I have a basement that is basically empty all the time.  I like the fresh veg option.  I am allways looking for some good veggy's in the winter. 

Jim

[dave ames]

we mickey moused up an air filter. geez i'm cheap.

NO LAUGHING!





that white fiber lightly stuffed into the 3 inch long 3/4 inch tube is sure to grow medium. an open cell PET fiber.. it's like plastic cotton.

 , dave

[dave ames]

a brief garden update:

it's been three weeks since we lit the fuse on our tomato seedlings. these growth rates are something i'm not used to, amazing! but i bet things can go bad just as quickly.

a side by each shot of ten days growth..

day 11 here on the left                              day 21 on the right




fruit is setting nicely



full system view..with added light blocking measures



changes and adjustments made include:
added an air filter and light blocking as suggested here.
cut back to 1/10th strength nutrients to encourage this first set of blooms to set fruit, also a suggestion from forum members and comfirmed elsewhere.
flattened out our pv elevation a few more degrees.
added some stakes for training.
changed orientation of fluid pump due to anomalous behavior.

not like grampas garden days,
   -methods foreign in many of ways.

  no dirt nor mulch sans worms and clay,
       -hydroponic plants growing in plastic trays.

     growth rates fantastic, colors superb,
           -folks raising zucchini right on the curb.

       all sounds so great all looks so grand,
               -but something is missing..when i look at my hand.

          hard to believe ones been gardening when theres no muck,
                   -as i run my fingers thru some compost just for good luck.

cheers, dave

[Bruce S]

Very nice redo. The 'maters look like they'll be tasty
The light cover is a good one , will help keep the alge growth to a min. AND the nutrient's from burning up.

Best of luck for a season long harvest.
Bruce S

 

[dave ames]

 a mid season update:

 not sure we could be any happier with the outcome so far..if anything i wish we had gone bigger with the garden setup, we are confident that the system would support a garden many times this size..even by a factor of ten. we would just need plumbing and a larger reservoir tank.

 just from these seven plants we have taken many dozens..even scores of fruit, we lost count. been giving them away as fast as we can and there are more every other day!

 a few pics.



our always smiling assistant.



the ammo.


 still running a VERY weak solution between 1/10th and 1/20th strength..have not been measuring just eyeballing.

it's all good fun!
cheers, dave

[Bruce S]

Dave ;
That is good to read  ... The weak solution and the growth means you have it just right. Too much more feed and the tomatoes would go back into Vine growth and slow on the fruit.

Didn't see the pics tho.
We too are in the swap for salsa and garlic mode .
Keep it going, will be interesting how long it will last into the cold season..

Cheers
Bruce S