First fly on test tower

[fabricator]

I finally got my stainless blade hubs done yesterday, today I bolted the blades together and slapped em on the alternator and tilted the whole mess up in the air, it actually goes round and round when the wind blows, my air brake works better than I had hoped it would, it takes it down to a nice slow smooth stop, the test tower is on an old hay wagon, the tower is 3x3 square tube with .500" wall, the winch is my home brew, it has a 250:1 worm gear reducer, it's a little over kill for this tower the winch hardly knows the tower is there, I can take the motor off and turn the input shaft with thumb and finger to raise the tower.
Eventually it's gonna go out in the field in the back ground, I'll get some video after I get some batteries hooked up and i can let it rip for a while.

[97fishmt]

Hi Fabricator,
Looks real nice!  
You are sure patient.

I just finished a set of  blades for a 10 foot rotor and can't wait to get them up.
I still need to balance them and paint them but still it's hard to look
at them and and wonder how they will work.

I carved them for another motor but what I have up now has been
working for along time so I will try them on it first before I switch
the motors out.

Anyhow nice work and may you have good luck with a tower build now.

[fabricator]

I still have to balance the blade assembly, I have one blade that consistently finds the bottom.

[ChrisOlson]

I still have to balance the blade assembly, I have one blade that consistently finds the bottom.

I'm still waiting for the video of the road test behind the 544 - in road gear with the TA ahead and the throttle pinned.  You could name that video "Fabricator One Seven, You Are Cleared For Takeoff........"   
--
Chris

[ChrisOlson]

Oh, and BTW - nice test unit.  I'm going to grab a hay wagon out of the shed and build me one of those.  That's pretty impressive - can assemble the thing in the shop, pull it outside, raise the "tower" and test fly it.
--
Chris

[fabricator]

I still have to balance the blade assembly, I have one blade that consistently finds the bottom.

I'm still waiting for the video of the road test behind the 544 - in road gear with the TA ahead and the throttle pinned.  You could name that video "Fabricator One Seven, You Are Cleared For Takeoff........"   
--
Chris

I'm thinkin out on the blacktop behind the Powersmoke, I could fill the bed with batteries and have a wind powered hybrid.............now ya got me thinkin, I could put my biodiesel reactor on the trailer, the mill could power the reactor so I could be makin fuel while drivin down the road......................Criminey!!!!!! I think I just solved the over unity thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fabricator]

I still have to balance the blade assembly, I have one blade that consistently finds the bottom.

I'm still waiting for the video of the road test behind the 544 - in road gear with the TA ahead and the throttle pinned.  You could name that video "Fabricator One Seven, You Are Cleared For Takeoff........"   
--
Chris

Yeah, this test wagon would be good for at least a 25 foot machine, my only problem is even after all the years I've been doin it it's still a beatch backin up a hay wagon.

I'm thinkin out on the blacktop behind the Powersmoke, I could fill the bed with batteries and have a wind powered hybrid.............now ya got me thinkin, I could put my biodiesel reactor on the trailer, the mill could power the reactor so I could be makin fuel while drivin down the road......................Criminey!!!!!! I think I just solved the over unity thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dlenox]

Dale,

Great - one step closer for you!

Is that the tower that you are going to use in the field or going with something else?  I remember that you had some sort of zoning issues, sounds like you may have prevailed there.

I also can't remember which inverter you decided to go with..

BTW: nice winch!

Dan Lenox

[freejuice]

Nice Job Dale!
I'm really impressed by the whole affair...I'm green with envy, especially the winch!

Currently I'm putting the rear rotor and stator together for the 17 footer...hopefully tomorrow I can have the front rotor on.....then onto the blades and tower mod's.
 The root of those blades looks deep....did you go the full depth of a 2x4?
 All the best,
 Gavin

[fabricator]

No this is just going to be a test tower, it'll prolly get used in the future for testing other turbines, I still have not resolved all the zoning issues, the actual tower will either be guyed tilt up or an Olsen inspired home brew tilt up lattice, the thread by Dave B about Dave Moellers tilt up lattice tower is really inspiring also, my problem there is the gummint pukes are gonna want stamped engineers drawings.

[fabricator]

Nice Job Dale!
I'm really impressed by the whole affair...I'm green with envy, especially the winch!

Currently I'm putting the rear rotor and stator together for the 17 footer...hopefully tomorrow I can have the front rotor on.....then onto the blades and tower mod's.
 The root of those blades looks deep....did you go the full depth of a 2x4?
 All the best,
 Gavin

Yep, I laminated 1x4 pine together, they are about 3 1/2" thick.

[defed]

your test tower is a little more impressive than mine!  i'm working on a way to try to get to at least 20' and run it awhile.  i probably won't get the real tower up anytime soon, as i still have to get permits.

[fabricator]

your test tower is a little more impressive than mine!  i'm working on a way to try to get to at least 20' and run it awhile.  i probably won't get the real tower up anytime soon, as i still have to get permits.

That is one reason I put my test tower on a wagon, our new wind ordinance says nothing about a wont turbine mounted on a wagon and is therefore not covered buy the ordinance.

[fabricator]

Well, thar she blows, it seems pretty smooth, it rumbles a little at higher speeds, now I need to know how to start measuring what it's doing, for instance, how do I connect a Doc Watson to it? I also have a DC ammeter that measures up to 750 amps, how would I go about hooking that up, the mechanical stuff is kindergarten to me but the electronics are College calculus, so remember I need the "For Dummies" version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWBpua4bLk

[ChrisOlson]

Well, thar she blows, it seems pretty smooth, it rumbles a little at higher speeds, now I need to know how to start measuring what it's doing, for instance, how do I connect a Doc Watson to it?

I would guess the 'rumbling' is nothing more than normal generator vibration at just above cut-in speeds.  All mine do that to a certain extent.

A Doc Wattson measures the negative side of the DC.  It says "source" and "load' on the meter.  You hook the black wire on the "source' side to the negative on your rectifier, the "load" side black of the meter to the batteries.  The red wire on the "source" side of the meter you hook to your 48 volt positive, the red wire on the "load" side you don't hook up to anything.
--
Chris

[ChrisOlson]

how do I connect a Doc Watson to it?

Also be aware that a Doc Wattson is only good to 50 amps with short bursts to 100 amps.

That being said, I've run 100 amps thru mine and never had one fail yet.
--
Chris

[defed]

hey fabricator....we are at about the same stage, except i only have 4'      i've got a turnigy meter on the way, and been finishing things up so i can keep it outside.  got a few coats of linseed oil on the blades and the magnets are pinned with the magnet disc and hub primed.

[fabricator]

how do I connect a Doc Watson to it?

Also be aware that a Doc Wattson is only good to 50 amps with short bursts to 100 amps.

That being said, I've run 100 amps thru mine and never had one fail yet.
--
Chris

Crap, I thought I had  a DocWatson but it turns out it's a semi comparable unit made by E-Flite it says it's good to 120 amps but only 50 volts, I'm gonna be over 50 volts a lot, is that gonna let the smoke out of this thing? I let thew mill run open circuit for a few minutes, the wind jumped to 13mph and my DMM said 110 volts DC, so I chickened out and shut it down and hooked the load back up, at about 7 - 8 mph it is putting out around 50 - 52 volts DC, it's kinda hard to nail down because it changes so fast with variable winds.
I have a 12 volt head light on each battery and the charge keeps going up, I finally had to shut it down because I wasn't sure what the upper charge limit should be, it was getting to around 54 volts.

[ChrisOlson]

I have a 12 volt head light on each battery and the charge keeps going up, I finally had to shut it down because I wasn't sure what the upper charge limit should be, it was getting to around 54 volts.

58 is the absolute top end, 56 is where you should start dumping power and the batteries will be gassing some there, 52 is what you want to maintain the bank at under normal loaded conditions (inverter or whatever).  On a good wind day, with the normal loads on the inverter ('freezer, 'fridge, lights, fans going in the house, etc..) mine usually hangs around 54 but the batteries don't gas at 54.

When the wind don't blow I've pulled mine down to 42 volts and then the turbines have a hard time getting spun up very good when the wind starts to blow again.
--
Chris

[dlenox]

Dale,

Yea a bit of a rumble - more like a growl - is pretty typical, mine made the same noise but at lower speed.  You could tell when the inverter switched on the load and when it was simply charging the batteries by the sound that it made.  After a couple of days you could tell how it was performing in low wind just by listening to it.

Nothing real loud, but if you were listening, you could hear it.

The 'nominal' battery bank voltage that you need to maintain and dump at depends a bit on what type of batteries you are going to use.  I am using AGM and the inverter charges them at 57.2 volts and I typically try to maintain about 53.5v.  Be sure to set the dump at voltage just a hair over what ever voltage the inverter decides to charge the batteries at - but keep it tight as compared to the charging voltage.  With mine I have it set at about 57.5v, just over charging voltage.

In 'normal' operation anything above charging voltage and you will want to start dumping!

Dan Lenox

[ChrisOlson]

The 'nominal' battery bank voltage that you need to maintain and dump at depends a bit on what type of batteries you are going to use.  I am using AGM and the inverter charges them at 57.2 volts and I typically try to maintain about 53.5v.  Be sure to set the dump at voltage just a hair over what ever voltage the inverter decides to charge the batteries at - but keep it tight as compared to the charging voltage.  With mine I have it set at about 57.5v, just over charging voltage.

Dan,

A lot of this depends on whether or not you have grid power too.  If you're not hooked up to the grid you can't charge the batteries with the inverter without running the generator.  I dump at 56 volts because the turbine output is not constant enough to do an equalizing charge on the batteries once a month.  That's all I use the inverter charger for - to boil the batteries good once a month on diesel power.

Otherwise, I figure if the turbines can keep them at right around 54 volts on average it's "good enough".  If the wind don't blow and there's no load on the inverter they "settle in" at about 51 volts.  So I don't dump that high because I don't like to see the batteries gassing constantly in high winds.
--
Chris

[fabricator]

For right now I have four group 29 deep cycles the ones from wally world I think they're made by Johnson Controls, right now there's no controls at all, I'm just gettin a feel for how it behaves, I may have to adjust the tail, it seems to want to run maybe 10-15 degrees to the offset side off the wind.

[dlenox]

Chris,

I think that in my case it's not necessarily whether you are grid tied or not, but the inverter.  My Xanterex XW when I set it up for AGM batteries - it sets the charging level - I do not have control over what voltage it charges at.  I assume that it takes into consideration the battery bank type and size, but am not really sure.

So in my case the inverter decides the charging voltage, not me.

But I think we are essentially saying the same thing - set your dump voltage at a hair above the battery charging voltage.

Dan

[ChrisOlson]

For right now I have four group 29 deep cycles the ones from wally world I think they're made by Johnson Controls, right now there's no controls at all, I'm just gettin a feel for how it behaves, I may have to adjust the tail, it seems to want to run maybe 10-15 degrees to the offset side off the wind.

That's pretty normal for an angled hinge tail like that.  It takes quite a bit more wind to get it to go any further, I'll bet.
--
Chris

[ChrisOlson]

I think that in my case it's not necessarily whether you are grid tied or not, but the inverter.  My Xanterex XW when I set it up for AGM batteries - it sets the charging level

Yeah, that's true.  Those AGM batteries might be different.  I got flooded ones.  It looked like, in Dale's video, that he's using marine deep cycles and those don't really like too much above 56 in a bank.  You can go to 58 without hurting them, but you don't want to do that for a long time.

Actually, that's all we're using in our battery bank too - Group 29 marine deep cycles.  They work good, they're cheap, and if one goes south it's not that expensive to replace it.  I pop the caps off about once every six months and check the cells with a hydrometer to make sure none are going bad - and I've never replaced one in six years.  Actually seven years, because there's four in that bank that used to be on the old 12 volt system we had way back when.
--
Chris

[fabricator]

How many batteries do you have Chris?

[ChrisOlson]

How many batteries do you have Chris?

We're up to 16 on the house, plus I bought one of those 4DM Interstate batteries that's not quite twice the size of a Group 29.  The only reason I bought that battery is because I got it cheap.  I usually pick up more batteries when they got them on sale.  Farm & Fleet in Rice Lake gets deep cycle batteries in before the boating season and they're stacked on the floor by the tire desk in a cube about 20 feet square and 4 feet high.  There's got to be 200 batteries in that stack.  When the boating season sort of dies out you can pick up the leftovers that didn't get bought, on special.  When that happens I come home with a couple more, and hook 'em up.

The nice deal about that is that the Group 29's are more expensive so people usually buy the cheaper Group 24 and Group 27's.  So the leftovers are usually Group 29's.
--
Chris

[defed]

while we're on the subject of batteries, how do you calculate how many you should have for a given turbine?  i know i've seen this sort of stuff around, but i've not been having good luck w/ the search engine lately.

[fabricator]

while we're on the subject of batteries, how do you calculate how many you should have for a given turbine?  i know i've seen this sort of stuff around, but i've not been having good luck w/ the search engine lately.

I don't think I've ever seen that covered, I figured you just keep buying batteries until you run out of money or die.

[FishbonzWV]

Dale,
Glad to see you're ready to get her flying.
She's a thing of beauty!  Great job.
Got my retaining wall done and have moved on to a boat restoration  project.
Bonz

[dlenox]

Chris,

Your setup gets confusing to me as I'm pretty sure that I remember that you have 3 different systems: 12v, 24v and 48v, but always seem to forget which ones go where.

So which nominal voltage do you have on the house side?

Dan Lenox

[fabricator]

Dale,
Glad to see you're ready to get her flying.
She's a thing of beauty!  Great job.
Got my retaining wall done and have moved on to a boat restoration  project.
Bonz

And at the heart of the system is the three phase bridge I got from you Fish, so far so good.

[Rover]

I've read this entire post "First fly on test tower" and never did I see mention of the fly, what kind of fly, black fly?, horse fly?, house fly?... how did you attract it ?

Rover