Author Topic: Spiral blade inside a pipe  (Read 15338 times)

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DragonFly III

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Re: Need for a Book For dummies on water power
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2010, 02:31:17 PM »
I was kind of confused by the idea of using a ram pump.  I'm glad to see that it's OK that i got confused because I'll never build it.  Thank you to members who caught this and let me know how bad of an idea it was. 

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2010, 02:37:52 PM »
Thanks for the heads up on the house.  We hired a lawyer and the financial guy checked with his and we are off the hook.  The house is for sale by owner and we found the house.  The owner of the house never signed the proposal so it was not a binding agreement.  We are now dealing with the owner independently.

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2010, 02:40:41 PM »
As for the turbine.  I'm not sure if I stated before but I am willing to channel a part of the creek into a funnel to force more water to the props. 

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2010, 02:57:10 PM »
Just thought I'd share a link that I just saw. 
http://www.absak.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1098

DragonFly III

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Re: Need for a Book For dummies on water power
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2010, 03:04:56 PM »
I actualy have 2 post on the same subject.  Well at least they became the same subject so here is a link to the other link which I have started earlier on.  I want the calaberation of both sets of members because I think it will help me get to my goal.

spiral blade inside a pipe
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,143828.0.html

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2010, 03:08:13 PM »
www.absak.com/tech/turbines.pdf

At the bottom of the page is an under water turbine which produces 100w in free running water.

kurt

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2010, 06:48:05 PM »
seems how you indicated you wanted the two threads joined i just merged them for you so there all in one thread seems how its all the same topic.

12AX7

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2010, 10:37:40 PM »
Hello!

It's been some time since I asked about an underwater VAWT.  Thanks for the link!
The asbka site gives a few specs that kinda surprise me

Three models are listed,  two 5 kw and one 10 kw.

the first model has a 5 ft. di. 2.5 ft tall   4 blade rotor.   They claim 5 kw at a current (water, not amps) speed of 6.7 mph
the second model  has a 5 ft by 5 ft  4 blade rotor.         This unit is rated 5 kw @ 5.4 mph.
the third model              5 ft by 5 ft  4 blade rotor.                                 10 kw @ 6.7 mph

I'm surprised by the doubling of output (from 5 to 10 kw)  by increasing the flow rate from 5.4 to 6.7 mph (using the same size rotor).

Anyone care to comment?

ax7
Mark

wooferhound

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2010, 12:46:16 PM »
I always thought that it would be "cool" to live near a creek for the Low Cost Air Conditioning. Pump the water into the house through a Radiator device with a fan blowing through it for the cooling. Of course you would want to return the warmed water to the creek.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2010, 02:33:15 AM »

I'm surprised by the doubling of output (from 5 to 10 kw)  by increasing the flow rate from 5.4 to 6.7 mph (using the same size rotor).

Available energy goes with the cube of the fluid flow:  Square for the momentum (m * v squared) times another factor of v for the amount of mass flowing through the turbine in a given time.

5.4 cubed is 157.1.  6.7 cubed is 300.1.  That's 2:1 within about 9% (which is appropriate for two significant figures in the input data).

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2010, 11:41:55 AM »
woof,

I was actually designing a project like that for a friend.  Use a water wheel to pump the water through a car/truck radiator (cleaned very, very well since the return will go back into the creek) and mount a few large 12dc computer fans to the front of the radiator that will run off of the batt bank to cool down their hunting shed.  Even on cold days it gets very hot in there.

I didn't think of home ac with this method.  The house is over a football Field away so it would have to be a beefy pump and I would have to run the pipe under ground to avoid warming the water too much.  Wow that would really cut down on electricity usage.  AC units use a lot of power, even the energy star products.  Just another step to telling Niagara Mohawk to kiss my a&&.

ghurd

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2010, 11:58:04 AM »
A 20" box fan blade on a treadmill motor will move a LOT more air with a LOT less power than 3-4 PC fans.

If there was a suitable pump, could maybe use a treadmill motor to operate it with less power too.
The pumps I looked at, there seem to be issues with the pump RPM being around 3000~3600 vs treadmill RPM being around 700.
G-
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2010, 12:11:29 PM »
For a I will use a larger fan.  The fans that I am speeking of are came out of large servers from yesteryear.  They are 6" fans and I am amazed at the ammount of air flow.  I have two or three of them.  The site at which the hunting cabin does not have potential for alot of power and at most they only have one battery so I'm trying to keep the power consumtion to a min.  The hunting shack is small.  it is a striped 10x 6' camper.  Actual size inside is less than that with 7' ceiling.

For another project I used a 30" exhaust fan blade from a huge ceiling unit and a 1/3 hp motor attached to the blade by belt drive.  Even though it's only a 1/3 hp motor it would do serious damage to anything that unfortunatley go sucked it.  The shroud was homade so I never put screens on it.  (didn't have the materials at that point.)

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2010, 06:00:51 PM »
Think about this:

Put the radiator near the ceiling and run a wide duct from there at least partway to the floor.  You'll get a reverse chimney effect with the cold air that will run a convection loop with no fan.

Why power a pump?  Use a hydraulic ram.  Let the river pump your water.

(If you're less than 30 feet or so above the river the water won't boil in the return line, which means it will help pump the water, too, replacing the energy lost raising it.  Then your ram only works against friction and you can get a lot more output flow for a given amount of water into the ram pipe.  If not, a ram will still get the water up to you, as high as you want provided your plumbing can stand the pressure.  It's just that the higher you go the lower the fraction of the input water goes out the high-pressure output.)

In addition to the crud in the coolant, radiators are (were until recently?) soldered with lead.  They'll always leave some contaminant in the output water.  Don't drink it.  You might want to see if you can find a drinking-water-safe water-heating radiator.  (Then, in addition to being nice to the fish and heading off legal trouble from environmentalists, you can water the plants with some of the warm waste water from your "air conditioner".)

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2010, 06:02:54 PM »
Think about this:

Put the radiator near the ceiling and run a wide duct from there at least partway to the floor.  You'll get a reverse chimney effect with the cold air that will run a convection loop with no fan.

Why power a pump?  Use a hydraulic ram.  Let the river pump your water.

(If you're less than 30 feet or so above the river the water won't boil in the return line, which means it will help pump the water, too, replacing the energy lost raising it.  Then your ram only works against friction and you can get a lot more output flow for a given amount of water into the ram pipe.  If not, a ram will still get the water up to you, as high as you want provided your plumbing can stand the pressure.  It's just that the higher you go the lower the fraction of the input water goes out the high-pressure output.)

In addition to the crud in the coolant, radiators are (were until recently?) soldered with lead.  They'll always leave some contaminant in the output water.  Don't drink it.  You might want to see if you can find a drinking-water-safe water-heating radiator.  (Then, in addition to being nice to the fish and heading off legal trouble from environmentalists, you can water the plants with some of the warm waste water from your "air conditioner".  Or take a shower.)

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2010, 09:48:26 PM »
Point well taken.  I don't even want to build a damn cause of the wildlife and now i'm gonna kill them with toxins.
OK scratch that.  I will make a radiator.  Aluminum tubing? then it would be a dehumidifier too. maybe?

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2010, 11:05:09 PM »
The water pump I was thinking about would be mechanicly powered by a water wheel.

The Ram pump seems awfly noisy.  That constant chatter seems as though would disturb nature.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2010, 05:26:16 PM »
The water pump I was thinking about would be mechanicly powered by a water wheel.

The Ram pump seems awfly noisy.  That constant chatter seems as though would disturb nature.

Chatter?  More like a mild click every few seconds.

Look up "hydraulic ram" on u-tube for some videos, with sound, of ram pumps in action.

Keep the fish out of the intake and you're not a significant issue for nature.

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2010, 10:39:35 PM »
The ram pump I saw on a U tube Made quite a bit of noise.  Maybe chatter wasn't the right word to use.  It clicked quite a bit during operation.  I was thinking, maybe i could enclose it in a housing to quiet it a bit.  I love to sit by the creek and listen to the water rushing by.  Not sure I would like to here that clicking, but who knows maybe it was just the one ram pump that was loud.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2010, 11:20:01 PM »
The ram pump I saw on a U tube Made quite a bit of noise.  Maybe chatter wasn't the right word to use.  It clicked quite a bit during operation.  I was thinking, maybe i could enclose it in a housing to quiet it a bit.  I love to sit by the creek and listen to the water rushing by.  Not sure I would like to here that clicking, but who knows maybe it was just the one ram pump that was loud.

Use a check valve with a soft ball for the waste valve.  Or build a waste valve with a layer of rubber, like from an inner tube, where the closure occurs.  Lots of ways to keep the valve quiet.

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2010, 01:18:07 AM »
That is good to know.  That really swings my vote back to the ram pump.  It's quite a bit easier than the other route

DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2010, 02:23:52 PM »
http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/images/MOV00426.MPG

here is a clip of the ram pump that I saw on web


DragonFly III

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2010, 09:23:40 PM »
I really like that linear pump.  It seems to be very quiet. 

XXLRay

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Re: Spiral blade inside a pipe
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2010, 02:56:16 AM »
There is a diy ram pump instruction on the internet from "MOTHER": http://outlands.tripod.com/farm/rampump.htm