Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251867 times)

MattM · « **Reply #198 on:** June 02, 2011, 01:55:39 AM »

Every time I see these VAWT's it makes me think how nifty they'd work for water wheels.

GoVertical · « **Reply #199 on:** June 02, 2011, 01:34:09 PM »

Hi, yes a stream is often what I dream of. I completed the mold and outter rotors. I am very optimistic about a higher output at a lower RPM. I hope it will live up to my expectations.

GoVertical · « **Reply #200 on:** June 02, 2011, 05:35:32 PM »

Greetings, I completed new rotors. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #201 on:** June 03, 2011, 05:23:57 PM »

Greetings, completed PMA case lids. I found some nice wire connectors that allows the electrical connections to be made outside the case. Very user friendly. Working on stators now. Enjoy the day.

artv · « **Reply #202 on:** June 03, 2011, 07:51:42 PM »

Hi GoVertical,.........I'm just amazed at how fast you seem to make all these different molds......you pour these yourself???....what is the material you use?

....does it contain metal shavings, or of the sort to create a flux path???........what you do in a week would take me a couple months.....looking forward to seeing your stators...(tomorrow maybe) lol...........your workmanship is excellent........keep up the good work......artv

GoVertical · « **Reply #203 on:** June 03, 2011, 08:14:40 PM »

Hi, the mold is fabricated from a kitchen cutting board, HDPE. I use a CNC router to cut the top and bottom. The side of the mold is a piece of PVC pipe. I did a experiment with and without metal and I found no benefit. Thanks for the kind words. I hope to see some photos of your project.
Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #204 on:** June 05, 2011, 08:39:04 AM »

Greetings, coils ready for casting. The color dots really help reduce the level of confusion when making the connections. Enjoy the day.

3 phase, 4 coils/phase, 18 AWG, 100 turns, 2.2 ohms/phase

GoVertical · « **Reply #205 on:** June 07, 2011, 12:55:42 PM »

Greetings, I had to complete a lot of prep work, it took longer than planned. Finally ready to cast. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #206 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:10:14 PM »

Greetings, tragedy happens, it is a learning experience. The resin failed to harden around two of the brass nuts and the connection wires broke off when I was removing the screws. I plan on using shorter screws next casting. Enjoy the day. Cheers

GoVertical · « **Reply #207 on:** June 08, 2011, 02:32:18 PM »

Greetings, successfully removed stator from mold, this time I broke the mold but save the stator. Spray on cooking oil works well for a mold release agent if you remember to use it. Two more to go. Enjoy the day, Cheers.

GoVertical · « **Reply #208 on:** June 11, 2011, 08:18:41 AM »

Greetings, just completed 3 stators. I need to improve mold to eliminate resin bleed out from around the air holes. Enjoy the day.

artv · « **Reply #209 on:** June 11, 2011, 01:15:27 PM »

Hi GV ,very nice I've just about got my rotor ready , am going to need 72 coils be nice if you could wind them for me.lol.....looking forward to your next post...........artv

GoVertical · « **Reply #210 on:** June 11, 2011, 02:12:11 PM »

Greetings, do have any photos posted of your project? I was planning on road test today but my stators shifted out of vertical alignment and I have disassemble the PMA and pin the stators so they do not move. Hope to see some photos. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #211 on:** June 11, 2011, 02:14:30 PM »

forgot to insert $:-\$

Madscientist267 · « **Reply #212 on:** June 20, 2011, 01:10:39 AM »

Bet that gets the neighbors attention!

Not that the typical HAWT on the front of a jeep doesn't, but in the mountains, people kinda expect weird things...

My neighbor when I lived in CO as a kid didn't think twice when I showed up at his front door with a radio flyer with a vacuum cleaner agitator motor strapped to one wheel (although he was right, it never worked LOL)

Keep up the good work dude!

Steve

GoVertical · « **Reply #213 on:** June 24, 2011, 10:04:55 AM »

I am taking a few days to rebuild the pipe cutter. I have to cut a few more parts before final assembly. It looks like it may become a CNC in the future. Enjoy the day.

dave ames · « **Reply #214 on:** June 25, 2011, 01:22:47 AM »

Cheers GoVertical,

I continue to be impressed each time we see all these little detail bits of rollers, arms and different shapes you have fabricated for all these amazing assemblies..

Did I see you had mentioned elsewhere, that you are running cad->lazycam->Zenbot? Would love to see a few shots of the table. afraid I have no room or resources for a machine right now but a guy can dream for the future

Good stuff!
Following along, dave

GoVertical · « **Reply #215 on:** June 26, 2011, 05:23:48 PM »

Hi, the Zenbot CNC router is a lot of bang for small bucks, I am very happy with it. LazyCam and Mech3 was not a good purchase for me. LazyCam crashes all the time and after using Mech3 for along time I was never able to resolve a repeating offset that occurred every time the axis moved. I am now using DeskCNC and there are no problems so far.

I completed rebuild of large diameter plastic pipe cutter. The configuration is modeled after a design seen on the web, just like the earlier version. The cutter is stationary and the pipe spins. The stationary cutter configuration allows for a AC powered cut off tool to be used. I am able to mount the pipe and then slide the cutter to the measured cut off position. The new configuration will also help eliminate waste as long as I measure twice and cut once. Enjoy the day.

Boss · « **Reply #216 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:15:18 PM »

Dammit man you are an amazingly great artist

GoVertical · « **Reply #217 on:** June 27, 2011, 06:32:08 PM »

Hi, thanks. Even great artists make mistakes, today I found out that I cut the mag rotors to large and my stator spacers will not fit around them so I can not assemble the PMA until I make another jig to cut the rotors smaller. I needed the jig anyways when the CNC cuts the rotors there is a small amount of flex in the cutting bit that causes the rotors to be a bit off center. This will allow me to center the rotor creating a more balanced unit. Thanks again and enjoy the day.

Boss · « **Reply #218 on:** June 28, 2011, 03:07:48 PM »

Quote

I needed the jig anyways

I hear ya, I seem to do a lot of these rationalisations too. So six terminals? Star and Wye compatible? Mind if I ask what you are using for terminals? Those do look nice and clean

GoVertical · « **Reply #219 on:** June 29, 2011, 10:27:52 AM »

Hi, project update. I was able to reduce the size of the magnet rotors using a lathe to reduce the diameter. The stator spacers can now be installed.

The additional terminals are required because the stators are stacked vertically. Each stator is wired using the 3 phase method, then the additional terminals allow each phase to be connected to the addition stators. It also allows for the stators to connected using the Star or Delta configuration, each stator has 3 inputs and 3 outputs. It is easier for me to fabricate smaller stators and stack the vertically because I am unable to fabricate a large diameter stator. I also found that this configuration requires less magnets.

I am still searching for a better method to measure the size of the stator spacers. I am currently using a digital caliper. Comments welcome, enjoy the day. \

GoVertical · « **Reply #220 on:** June 29, 2011, 11:38:50 AM »

Quote from: Boss on June 28, 2011, 03:07:48 PM

Quote
I needed the jig anyways
Mind if I ask what you are using for terminals?

Hi, I am using a threaded brass button molded into the stator and a brass machine screw and large diameter copper wire to make the connections between the stators. For the power out of the PMA I am using the aluminum terminal connection.

GoVertical · « **Reply #221 on:** June 29, 2011, 09:25:41 PM »

Hi, found a new problem when using the carbide cutting wheel to cut the PVC tubing and fittings for the stator spacers and case. I was using a masonry carbide wheel to cut with and it was working well. During the re-fabrication I broke the cutting wheel. I replaced it with a metal cutting carbide wheel and now the PVC melts. I tried it at different speeds using router speed controller and the melted PVC accumulates on the pipe and prevents the pipe from spinning in the cut off fixture. I plan on replacing it with a masonry carbide cutting wheel to see if it will cure the problem. This is really slowing down production, I should know more tomorrow. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #222 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:03:16 PM »

Greetings, I discovered the PVC unions that I am trying to use as a case is a softer form of PVC then the pipe. If I use any type of carbide disk for a cut off the union melts. I am currently modifying a 5 3/8 circular saw blade to fit the angle grinder. I also have to fabricate a blade guard. Hopefully this will be the solution.

Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #223 on:** June 30, 2011, 06:07:28 PM »

Greetings, saw blade installed and I made a test cut, it works. I still have to fabricate the blade guard. Right know it is possibly the most dangerous shop tool on the planet.

Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #224 on:** July 02, 2011, 11:20:43 PM »

On early PMAs that I built I confused the multi wire relationship. Because of this confusion all the PMAs require a very high RPM to produce a charging voltage. I learned from my mistakes and now I am making a new PMA. It will have 4 rotors and three stators. The rotors have 16 magnets, 1 x ¾ N45 cylinders. The stator coils are one in hand 18 AWG with 100 turns. The stators are 3 phase configuration with 4 coils each phase and when they are all wired together they form a 3 phase with 12 coils per phase. I am hope this configuration will produce a charging voltage at a much lower RPM. I am a few weeks away before I can do any testing.

spacer cutter is working well. Even with no electrical connections when the rotors are spinning I can feel eddy currents in the 3 stators. I wonder if this is a indication of mis-wiring or I may need to increase the size of the blades. This is the first time building this size of PMA and I have no previous experience to relate this to.

artv · « **Reply #225 on:** July 03, 2011, 09:03:09 AM »

Hi Go,...I'm following along,I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, and I'm sure you are aware of it ,but your stators and your mag rotors have to be lined up perfectly and with the same orientation.
Are you going to parallel the outputs of each stator, or hook them in series, or even Jerry rig them??
Being you have the start and finish of each phase coming out of each stator ,I hope you will try all three methods.
Looking forward to your test results......keep up the great work.........artv

GoVertical · « **Reply #226 on:** July 03, 2011, 09:23:30 AM »

Greetings, I planning to connect the stators in series to form a 3 phase, 12 coil per phase configuration. Yes, vertical coil alignment between the stators is very important, thanks. I am puzzled by the affect of adding all the stators and rotors has on the rotational speed when spinning the unit by hand, it still spins with no cogging. The first stator and rotor set was I spinning by hand and it rotated freely. As I added the next stator and rotor, still spinning by hand the rotation speed decreased. Added the third stator and last rotor, still spinning by hand, no cogging but rotation very slow. I will have to finish the wire connections and measure output. Because the stators are wired in 3 phase it maybe the natural affect of the opposing fields or reflected impedance , but really do not know. I also noticed that the stators will shutter back and forth or oscillate without the outter case installed. I should know more I a few days. Enjoy the day.

electrondady1 · « **Reply #227 on:** July 03, 2011, 10:55:04 AM »

if i understand correctly you have created three 3 phase stators.
it sounds as though you may have a flipped coil or short in one or two of your stators oden.
you say there is no electrical connection between them ,and yet you get an an increase in difficulty as you add each stator
can you test each stator resistance/ output separately?
so you can compare each?
it may be that it's just induction, mags moving over copper.

the way to test for a flipped coil is to run a dc voltage through each phase and test the polarity of each coil with a magnet.

GoVertical · « **Reply #228 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:34:42 PM »

Quote from: electrondady1 on July 03, 2011, 10:55:04 AM

if i understand correctly you have created three 3 phase stators.
it sounds as though you may have a flipped coil or short in one or two of your stators oden.
you say there is no electrical connection between them ,and yet you get an an increase in difficulty as you add each stator
can you test each stator resistance/ output separately?
so you can compare each?
it may be that it's just induction, mags moving over copper.

the way to test for a flipped coil is to run a dc voltage through each phase and test the polarity of each coil with a magnet.

Hi, thank you, I believe your idea about induction is what I am observing. It is rather interesting to see the affect.

Project Update:
After considerable deliberation I have decided that the current configuration used to place the stators between the rotors is not cost affective. The design does work, proven by the fabrication of two PMA's, one 6 inch diameter and one 8 diameter. Material cost and labor is to great. I am redesigning the PMA case using more traditional methods. The new design will allow for easier stator placement and reduce fabrication time. I will post photos in the near future. Enjoy the day.

Madscientist267 · « **Reply #229 on:** July 04, 2011, 12:18:51 AM »

The drag you're experiencing is likely eddy currents in the copper, and increases as you add layers. If everything else checks out, ie no shorts, this is probably what is going on.

This is what the multiple "in hand" coils are about - trying to reduce the eddy current while still keeping the coil impedance low.

A larger gauge wire effectively shorts out partially with itself, smaller gauge wire is less affected.

If you want to see just how dramatic eddy currents can be, take a length of copper pipe, and a strong magnet, and while holding the pipe vertically, drop the magnet through the pipe. It will slow down dramatically as it goes through the pipe. A word of caution; put something soft under the pipe so that when the magnet makes its exit, it doesn't shatter after accelerating once out of the pipe from hitting something hard (such as concrete)...

Its a favorite with the kiddies.

Steve

GoVertical · « **Reply #230 on:** July 04, 2011, 10:44:13 PM »

Greetings, started new PMA case. I am using fiberglass 3/8 rods and shaft collars to position the stators. Need ideas to weather proof electrical terminals. Comments welcome.

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Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251867 times)