Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251975 times)

dlenox · « **Reply #330 on:** August 06, 2011, 04:32:02 PM »

wow we must share a brain or something - for the last week I've been looking for planetary gearset to do exactly the same thing... you beat me to it.

I see in the video that the planetary gears are wobbling. The noise seems to be timed with each revolution of the ring gear. In addition I'd try adding a dry lubricant such as graphite it should help immensly.

The direction that I started in was to slavage a have a bunch of planetary sets from some automotive transmissions, very tight tolerances.

Dan Lenox

GoVertical · « **Reply #331 on:** August 06, 2011, 06:14:57 PM »

Hi, once the planetary gears are mounted without wobble I believe all the problems will be solved. It was recommended that shoulder bolts should be used. I used structural bolts and the threads are off centered from the hex head. This is what is causing the wobble. I have to order the shoulder bolts. Using the gears from a transmission is a good idea. I hope to see some pics when you have it put together. Enjoy the day.

Tritium · « **Reply #332 on:** August 06, 2011, 08:15:07 PM »

Your rotors seem to be wobbling also in the video.

Thurmond

12AX7 · « **Reply #333 on:** August 06, 2011, 08:41:00 PM »

Just another thought.. if you're looking for long term wear and reduce drag you might consider pressing bronze bushings into the gears.

ax7

GoVertical · « **Reply #334 on:** August 07, 2011, 07:24:02 PM »

Hi, I was able to square and center the planetary gears. It is still not perfect, but it is considerably better then it was. The noise has greatly been reduce. I have to slow down the feed rate on the CNC the next time I cut a set of gears to get them more centered. I changed the blade angle on the blade rotor. It spins more freely now, much less drag. I am planning on another road test this week and I will post results when available. What size blade should I use for a 500 watt output at 25 MPH (35 km/h) wind speed? I am planning to use the same fabrication method I am using know, it works really well for me. I just need to find the correct size blades.

ruddycrazy · « **Reply #335 on:** August 08, 2011, 03:17:25 AM »

G'day GoVertical,
I've lost count on the amount of planetary gearbox's I've overhauled over the years. Now with industrial planetary gears they have a hardened shaft then a set of needle rollers and the total gap is usually measured in microns. Now as the 3 centre gears just rotate and are stationary try making a bright steel inner bearing post then machine up each gear to suit a sealed ball bearing. Put a spacer under the bearing and one on top then by having the centre post drilled and tapped a retaining washer and bolt and be used to keep the gears intact. As your using plastic for the gears make the bore about 0.01mm under the bearing diameter and press the bearing on nice and true.
If done correctly and the correct backlash is set with the outer ring gear you will find this mod will outlast your generator.

Cheers Bryan

GoVertical · « **Reply #336 on:** August 08, 2011, 01:23:58 PM »

Hi, stationary shaft with the sealed bearing mounted in the gear. I believe your design change is the better way. I just noticed the same thing in a few videos on you tube and it will require less material. I will try that on the next one I fabricate. Thank you. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #337 on:** August 09, 2011, 11:41:47 AM »

Result of today's road test. Using TV antenna hardware was not a good idea, the mast bent at 65 MPH and the turbine hit the road and was dragged a short distance. I was testing the 6 blade configuration without gear box. The deceased blade angle did improve RPM's, cut in at 35 MPH. Results indicate that PMA needs larger magnets, thinner stator coils and larger blades to drive gear box. PMA appears unharmed but I am still assessing the damage. Enjoy the day.

12AX7 · « **Reply #338 on:** August 09, 2011, 10:12:00 PM »

Hello..

I NEVER would have thought that a standard TV antenna mast could have taken 30 mph while supporting a windmill!

Many many years ago I did TV service along with antenna work. Most every TV antenna I had to replace was due to bent masts. They maybe a bit stronger than typical EMT but not by much!

I'm not sure what the second picture is. The bottom edge of one blade?

ax7

GoVertical · « **Reply #339 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:57:50 AM »

Hi, I used bushing with a PVC pipe on the outside. The problem was I did not extend the PVC pipe all the way to the bottom of the test fixture. It was a learning experience. The PMA survived. Considering that it was slammed it to the pavement at 65 MPH, the magnets are still in place on the rotors without using glue, the drive shaft was not bent, I was able to observe a constant increase in output, and the hole unit did not explode in to many smaller pieces. I should have repairs made in a few days and be able to test the gearbox. It did show the fabrication method to be sound and stable. The max RPM was around 300. I have to design the PMA to perform better at lower RPM's. Comments welcome.

GoVertical · « **Reply #340 on:** August 15, 2011, 05:47:00 PM »

Road test results with 1:3 gear drive added:

MPH________DC amps
10__________0.05
15__________0.5
20__________2.6
25__________3.7
30__________4.0
35__________4.5
40__________5.0

The meter display was not stable, The data is just ball park. The highest reading was 6.53 amps @ 40 MPH, probably cause by cross winds. Not the best numbers posted but it is a start. Data gathered today can be used to judge the value of future modification. Enjoy the day

taylorp035 · « **Reply #341 on:** August 15, 2011, 09:15:53 PM »

Quote

I have to slow down the feed rate on the CNC the next time I cut a set of gears to get them more centered.

From a little bit of 1st hand experience, some extra slop in your homemade cnc gears (wood or plastic) helps a lot. I'm guessing you used quite a small endmill to achieve those inside radii. I with my carbon fiber belt timing pulley that I am making, my 1/16" endmill was happy at 15 IPM and .030" DOC. If I did much more, the result was a useless piece of spikey wood.

5 stars for driving down the road with a windmill strapped to your car :

GoVertical · « **Reply #342 on:** August 17, 2011, 07:19:37 AM »

Hi, I am reworking the gear drive. I mounted the bearings in the gears and the gear posts are now stationary. The wobbling planet gears has been resolved and the gear drive should run smoother and make much less noise.

GoVertical · « **Reply #343 on:** August 17, 2011, 06:17:07 PM »

Hi, I had a chance to complete another road today. After alterations the VAWT is spinning more freely. I tried a 3 blade configuration and found that the 6 blade configuration works much better. I am fabricating new blades with a shorter chord and longer length and I am adding a scoop on the leading edge, like a C rotor or a small Lenz scoop. The gear drive when rotating is very quiet until I installs the blades. They are acting as a resonator and amplify the sound, it is a issue that will have to be solved in the future. Telemetry gather from the road test showed lower results, I found a bad connection in the bridge rectifier box and I was only measuring 2 of the phases. Comments welcome and enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #344 on:** August 20, 2011, 04:44:33 AM »

Project update:

I completed another road test. I wired the PMA as a 3 phase star with 12 coils per phase. Cut in was below 5 MPH. The internal resistance was so high that the blade rotor remained at a low RPM throughout the entire test. It was interesting to observe the effect that high internal resistance has on blade rotor RPM. Mounting the bearings in the gear with a stationary gear post works much better than the earlier configuration. I have trace the noise the gear drive makes to one planetary gear that has no back slash and binds with the sun gear during part of rotation. I was able to use a belt sander to reduce the outer diameter of the gear and the noise has been greatly reduce. Fabricating gears with a small amount of back lash is the solution for noise reduction of the gear drive. Thank you for providing the solution. I am fabricating new blades and a new PMA with better stators. I will try to have the work completed within a week and results from the next road test should improve. Comments welcome, enjoy the day.

dlenox · « **Reply #345 on:** August 20, 2011, 06:38:22 PM »

In my opinion extra clearance with the planetary gears is not a bad thing. In my opinion I believe that since the turbine rotates in one direction that additional clearance doesn't matter at all.

I've always loved planetary gearsets, maybe one day I can get back around to playing more with them in a turbine.

Great work - keep going with your project! I'm sure that many people are watching even though there is little feedback.

BTW: where are you located?

Dan Lenox

GoVertical · « **Reply #346 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:28:51 AM »

Hi, I am on a hill top 7 miles south of Ithaca NY. I am fabrication new blades, 4 foot tall by 18 inch chord. I am using the same material as the other blades but I adding a small Lenz scoop to the leading outside edge of the blade. The aluminum stair tread will allow the scoop to be attach using pop rivets. I am hope for a increase in RPMs. The job should be complete by tomorrow and I should be ready for another road test on Monday.

dlenox · « **Reply #347 on:** August 21, 2011, 05:03:44 PM »

Ithiaca I know where it is, nice area. I grew up outside of Rochester NY move around and ended up on mountain top in WV.

If you can't get more rpms by adding the scoop then consider increasing the gear ratio a bit instead. If I remember correctly you are currently using a 3:1 ratio, kick it up to 4:1 then?

Dan

GoVertical · « **Reply #348 on:** August 21, 2011, 07:48:00 PM »

Hi Dan, hill tops are ok, but it is difficult place to meet anyone because there is no there.

I started to fabricate scoop blade modification and I realized that if the scoop is mounted on the outside of the blade I will have to redesign the hinge mount because the scoop will prevent the current design from being functional. If the scoop is mounted on the inside the present hinge mount design can be used but then the blades will no longer function as a cross flow turbine configuration, but as a inverted Lenz. I remember reading about other project that tried the scoop on the inside and then outside and it made no difference with the RPMs that were produce. If anyone has any experience with this design please let me know. Scoop inside or outside? Comments welcome.

dlenox · « **Reply #349 on:** August 21, 2011, 09:08:46 PM »

Well technically the Lenz !! has the 'scoop' portion toward the outside edge, not the inside.

Dan

Tritium · « **Reply #350 on:** August 21, 2011, 10:18:36 PM »

http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/lenz2_turbine.htm

Thurmond

GoVertical · « **Reply #351 on:** August 23, 2011, 04:38:01 PM »

Hi, after reviewing suggestion and working within fabrication parameters. I am adding 3 blade configuration to inside of turbine. Early observation indicate a increase in RPM. Inner blade set appears to take advantage of inner vortex created by outer 6 blade set. Caps maybe added to inner 3 blade set, but I do have concerns about possible snow building up on the caps during the winter. I have to cut additional hinge assemblies for inner set of blades than I will be ready for another road test. Thank you for the all the suggestion. Comments welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiGD8NQJ3Yc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiGD8NQJ3Yc

GoVertical · « **Reply #352 on:** August 28, 2011, 07:39:10 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngp5JxV9Vsc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vortex Power Core, it is easier to say than multi blade savonius with rotating diverter planes. It never to early to start thinking about marketing. It still needs a lot work. Road test in the near future. Enjoy the day.

Volvo farmer · « **Reply #353 on:** August 28, 2011, 10:11:49 PM »

Quote from: GoVertical on August 28, 2011, 07:39:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngp5JxV9Vsc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Vortex Power Core, it is easier to say than multi blade savonius with rotating diverter planes. It never to early to start thinking about marketing. It still needs a lot work. Road test in the near future. Enjoy the day.

Never to early to start to think about marketing? Traditionally, a person devises a working product, then worries about marketing. However, since a VAWT is non-traditional, it might be OK to think about marketing it before you build it. There are certainly a good number of under-performing VAWTs out there sold to people with nice slick marketing campaigns. You just might be on to something big here!

boB · « **Reply #354 on:** August 29, 2011, 04:17:23 AM »

That's amazing ! It even works inside the house !

GoVertical · « **Reply #355 on:** August 29, 2011, 06:03:58 AM »

Hi, target numbers are 15 amps at 25 MPH. Until I can test and verify nothing is being offered for sale.

GoVertical · « **Reply #356 on:** August 29, 2011, 03:24:00 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVUZea8lDCc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVUZea8lDCc

Hopefully road test in the morning. I will be able to test with and without diversion planes. Searching for 6 VAWT lift blades. Comments welcome.

artv · « **Reply #357 on:** August 29, 2011, 07:57:16 PM »

Hi GoV,.....your work is incredible....
Looking at (I think the first pic).......seems to me the wind will pile up at the inner dia. of the blades???
I don't know anything about blade profiles ,or any of that stuff,...but ...I think of the wind the same as when pushing snow.....it curls when meeting resistance.......just what I thought when I looked at the picture...........keep up the great work.....artv

GoVertical · « **Reply #358 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:49:23 AM »

Hi, thanks for the input. I have no training with aerodynamics. I was looking at some CFD simulations on you tube of similar configuration and noticed that the air flow spirals off the blade after the air flow enters the turbine and forms a vortex at the center. I added the center set of blades and observed a increase in RPMs. Looking at the bottom view three sets of blades are receiving air flow and only one outer blade is heading into the wind. I am trying for a road test today. I will be able to test different blade configuration and will post results when available. Enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #359 on:** August 30, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »

6 inner blades with 6 diverting outer blades configuration with 1:3 gear drive.

MPH______Amps using 12 volt deep cell as test load
5_________0.0
10________0.03
20________1.3
25________3.0
30________5.5
35________6.5
40________9.0

This is the best road test to date. The gear drive needs improvement and the stators have to be replace. I should have working VAWT up and flying before winter. Comments welcome.

GoVertical · « **Reply #360 on:** September 06, 2011, 06:53:31 PM »

Hi, because of the limited ratio of the planetary gear configuration and the slow but high torque of the blade configuration I am fabricating a 1:15 ratio stacked gear drive. I still have to fit bearings on some of gears and fabricate spacer. At 40 MPH wind speed the blade RPM was approximately 130 without a gear drive. When the new gear drive is install the PMA RPM at 40 MPH will be approximately 1900. Comments welcome.

GoVertical · « **Reply #361 on:** September 08, 2011, 08:50:22 PM »

Hi, I completed the gear drive. It is very noisy. As I added more gears the noise increased. It makes to much noise for my application. Because the increased RPM is needed for the project I am going to use the same technique with belts and pulleys. Comments welcome.

TrackerJack · « **Reply #362 on:** September 08, 2011, 09:35:36 PM »

Hey Go... I think I'm getting dizzy. Nice work. Where were you when I was working on my Way Back Machine ?

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Author Topic: VAWT new proto-type (Read 251975 times)