Botched Tech support saga [RESOLVED]

[TomW]

How NOT to get Tech Support.

This is not a slam on Outback just relating my experience while it is fresh ie: ongoing.

Timeline;

7-18 [Sunday] Dead 7 year old Outback FX2524 Inverter this AM. Lightning storm over night likely cause.
7-19 [Monday] Contact Outback Tech Support via Email [should have called]
 
During the following work week I go back and forth via email with "M", sorting out things I already knew and tried.

Email replies from outback suddenly stop on Wednesday [7-21].

[7-23] Reestablish email dialog and "M" finally recommends a board set so I call "M" with my Credit Card # to pay for them.

[8-4] NO deliveries or tracking info from Outback. Contact "M" via email again ask if boards shipped. NO. Some breakdown in internal communication cost me a full week of down time. So I go further up the food chain to "S" a Tech Supervisor via telephone. "S" immediately takes charge, refunds my payment and ships the boards Next Day Air. Of course I forgot to ask "by Who?" FedEx was the carrier and my experience with them is they suck HARD.

[8-6] I finally got my boards Friday mid day. So 3 work weeks out from the failure I finally have boards in hand. I read everything Outback has on swapping boards, watched their Youtube videos. I am ready to swap these puppies out and get it back online.

It took 19 days from dead inverter to boards in hand. One day is firmly a Fedex delivery problem. I blame myself for much of the delay for trying to use a modern contact method to get support. This failure caused Outback to reconsider how they handle electronic communications WRT tech support according to "S". Hopefully it makes a smoother process for the next person!

[8-6] OK, boards in hand:

I open up the packages.

I am underwhelmed. "M" assured me in response to a direct email question if the replacement boards were refurbished or new that they were "new". These boards have obviously been reworked and the small one still smells fried in the static bag before I even open it. ***SIGH***.

I remove the originals from the inverter and follow the instructions provided and on Youtube, get it assembled, run the bench tests. It passes all tests. I button it up and hang it on the wall. Yippee! Wire it and fire it up check the circuits it feeds and it works. I go to do some other stuff in the house and while in the house I see the inverter loads all drop., The things dead again. By now it is past office hours in Washington State so I am stuck with a dead inverter at least until Monday.

I just leave it connected and mounted as I figure Outback might have some tests to suggest with it in place.

Impatiently wait til Monday while Glens' controller protects my batteries by wasting power I could be using rather than paying for it from the Grid. It happened to be a mix of storms, blazing sunshine and HEAT so the grid is struggling with all the AC loading especially here on the end of a barely maintained, meandering feeder line built for 1950's level power consumption and serving 3X as many homes with each running an exponentially greater loading.

It was up and down several times since this failure and, ironically, exactly how we justified this entire RE system. Freezer full of produce & grass fed beef with no power in 90 + F weather is a major motivator for a backup system.  Luckily the outages were short and turned out to be non events beyond an inconvenience. Luckily.

[8-9] Call again and talk to "S" who suggests some common gotchas between bench test and cover installation. Typical stuff, really, pinched ribbon cable, detached ribbon cable from catching on the cover as it goes on. A sensible suggestion I might want to send it back for repair if this is not the cause. Good dialog and concise useful information for me from "S".

I dismount the inverter and pull it apart. The problem is immediately obvious. My error. Not a detached or pinched ribbon cable but a spade connection to the board that is off. I know it was on when I closed it up because I used a flashlight and visually inspected each connector before I put on the cover. Turns out the female connector on the cable was spread so it did not grab the lug securely. It must have vibrated off after it was running or it would not have run at all. I slip the cable on the lug and realize it makes fair contact but it is not firmly attached. Grab the big hemostats and reach in and pinch the connector together firmly. Reattach it inspect the other connectors.

Run the bench tests it checks OK. Put the cover on and place it near the batteries and wiring on a box. Attach the battery cables, the AC OUT and the Mate. Fire it up. WOOHOO it works!

[8-13] I run it on the box until late Friday. It works treat feeding my loads! Later in the day on Friday I disconnect it and mount it on the wall. Get it all wired up. AC IN, AC OUT, battery and Mate. I fire it up and it works properly feeding my loads from the batteries. I go to do other stuff happy with my success [finally].

[8-14] Get up today and go to check on things, do chores as usual. Walking by the Inverter AC disconnect switch I see it is still padlocked in the "off" position. This prevents any unexpected live exposed wires while circuits are being worked on. I grab the key off the nail next to it unlock the lock, hang it and the key on the nail, flip the switch "on" walk into the power room [my office] check the lights on the inverter. Looks right has AC IN and inverting lights lit Battery indicator is "Full". It has been windy overnight so starting with full batteries today! Everything looks good.

On with my chores and eventually back to my office for coffee and checking my online business at Amazon and Feebay. Walking by the dump load on the wall of the office I notice it is running in dump mode. Odd we don't have that much power coming in?

As soon as I enter the office I hear the exterior fan on the Outback running this is very very rare. Quick look at the Mate shows the inverter is not inverting and is charging the batteries at a high rate. Battery volts are at 30+. Immediately tell the Mate to drop AC which it does. Sit down to do my work and about 5 minutes later it starts to do it again. I set the charger via the mate to low "battery low" values from the factory defaults. I had not changed those til now. It ignores my set points and charges the battery any time AC is present. So I sigh and pull the lever to disconnect the AC IN. Of course it is the weekend so unlikely I will have this fixed in under a month.

I am not sure what to blame here.

If I had sent it in to be fixed it would be running now.

I could have driven it to Washington State waited for it to be fixed and been home by now with a side trip to Vegas.

I have a long history in electronics as a tech and engineer in consumer goods, Avionics and Communications so board swapping is not a problem for me but I am getting long in the tooth and not as "good" as I once was.

I should have called rather than used email but I didn't. Big Mistake!

I was unintentionally misinformed about what I would receive as replacement boards.

This last "issue" could be programming but I am waiting until Monday to call "S" again before I go through the dismounting process again.

If it is not programming it is on its way back to Outback for an in house repair.

This is so unlike what I hear about Outback that I am still undecided on how I feel about it.

I certainly could have done it differently from my end.

I am about to buy a Magnum as a backup to have on the shelf but I need to see where this ends up in the expense column  before I can toss cash at anything RE.

This inverter is well out of warranty and has essentially run 24/7 for like 7 years so I do hope I get a solid fix soon.

When my equally old Mate suddenly died Outback replaced it at no cost not even shipping so I trust they will get me going this time.

Tom

Addendum:

[8-16] Call "S" get quick, to the point instructions on how to program the system to get it to do what I want. 5 minutes on the Mate configuring "HBX" mode and setting it to use HBX mode and its 100% . Great!

"HBX" is High Battery Xchange and sets the limits it charges batteries at to keep them from going flat.

Outback is still on my list of equipment I will buy.

There was a problem, they fixed it and no run around.

TW

[taylorp035]

Wow Tom, that quite the roller coaster.  Kinda like my Jeep going to the dealer 5 times in a row and still not fixing it's hiccuping problem.  They put over 1000 miles on it and still could figure it out.

I hope it lasts for another 7 years     

[wpowokal]

Just as well you are not fully off grid Tom, then if you were I'm sure you would have a back up on standby, your experience highlights the need for a backup source when off grid.

I started with only one 3Kw inverter and when it failed "under warranty" it had to be transported across Australia to the makers for repairs, took 3 weeks in total most of it transport time I suspect. I went to town and purchased a 12V (my system is 24v so welcome unbalanced batteries) 850 watt MSW which sufficed for domestic load, had to give it a stern talking too each morning when I wanted to run the fridge. The second time it failed was after a wet Friday night, panic stations as we were due to start processing the first of the winter fruit, so a desperate trip to our capital city (2 hours away) as it was a Saturday very few retailers were open ( they roll up the foot paths at 12 midday on a Saturday and roll them out again Monday morning), an interesting experience but as it turned out a very good purchase 3Kw 24V pure sine wave $3,300, now I had a back up.

Now we had power again, I worked on the original unit, mostly it was my fault, the internal fan control failed some time earlier so I simply ran the cooling fan 24/7 and I had not blown the dust out before the winter rains (dusty here in OZ) so it's main problem was a muddy control board. A good clean up and a replacement set of capacitors had it running again, and it is still given lead duty. Now have replacement capacitors on hand complete with separate mounting boards as I figure the on board circuit board will only stand one change of caps before the track lifts.

Now my two systems can support each other I hope most contingency's are covered.

allan


 

[12AX7]

Perhaps this is a topic that should be in "Reviews"  since it's about a manufacture?

ax7

[Fused]

Might be best to let a MOD put his write up where he pleases, not where we suggest.

Sorry to hear bout your troubles Tom. A phone call works best for me, with a writing tablet to jot down who I spoke with, and the details. Ive dealt with Tristar on their controller, now that was a great company to deal with. Hope it all works out for you, let us know.

Fused

[TomW]

It is about my ongoing process with them. Its here because I want it here as a record for myself.

I haven't decided what my final opinion is but when that happens I may link it from reviews.

And I thought maybe a dealer or member here from Outback might have an idea or pointer on if it might be a programming issue on the inappropriate  charging thing. At least one of our members works for them that I know of.

Tom

[Volvo farmer]

Every time I hear stories like this, I swear I'm going to get a back up inverter. Then I reach for my wallet and there's still no $1800 in it. If my inverter goes down, we suffer a pretty drastic change in lifestyle, so maybe I'll just get it done this time. It's got to be cheaper to have one on the shelf than to be scrambling for one with the generator drinking a gallon of fuel an hour.

[TomW]

Every time I hear stories like this, I swear I'm going to get a back up inverter. Then I reach for my wallet and there's still no $1800 in it. If my inverter goes down, we suffer a pretty drastic change in lifestyle, so maybe I'll just get it done this time. It's got to be cheaper to have one on the shelf than to be scrambling for one with the generator drinking a gallon of fuel an hour.

Yeah, I hear that.

Luckily we are on grid but it is, uh, less than reliable.

I think in this case I was being far too "nice" with the obviously young and inexperienced first contact with Outback.  Had I been more insisting on speed I could have expedited the process. 

Outback needs better triage on their front end since they are doing customer support daily and hopefully customers only go through it once.  3 or 4 simple questions on first contact would have established that I needed the board kit. Taking a week to sort out a bricked inverter is pretty unacceptable in this day and age and on anything mission critical for a customer. Email was my mistake but, again it is an avenue they supposedly promote since it is listed on the website so when a customer contacts them via that route they need to be on the ball about it.

Anyway, I am still undecided on how I feel on this.

And, yes, I will be buying at least a cheap inverter for a backup.  I would actually like to stack 2 of these FX's to drive my well pump but that isn't the same as one on the shelf ready to go.

Like most folks a new quality inverter is more than pocket change to us. 

If I was actually off grid rather than as emergency backup / local power production owner I would bite the bullet and have a spare tested unit on a shelf.

If, coulda, shoulda...

Tom

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

And, yes, I will be buying at least a cheap inverter for a backup.  I would actually like to stack 2 of these FX's to drive my well pump but that isn't the same as one on the shelf ready to go.

Are the FXes in stacked 240V configuration just regular FXes with a little reconfiguration (sync jumper, switch setings, etc.)?

If so, why not go ahead with the stack?  Assuming a stack doesn't tend to fail as a pair, if you get a failure you could put the pump back on-grid and reconfigure the surviving inverter to run most of your loads without its partner until you get a repair.

[TomW]

So today I call "S" and find out it is a programming error. 5 minutes on the phone and 5 minutes in the Mate screens configuring "HBX" it has been running with ACIN and not charging!

I think this is it. Not a hardware issue.

Glad I don't have to walk clueless users through problems..

On the subject of a "backup" or spare unit:

A mounted in use unit is just not the same.

It is probably what I would do if I had 2 rather than let one sit on a shelf..

Yes my FX can run either in parallel or series with another with a Hub for either higher voltage or higher power.

What I should do is buy a set of boards to sit on the shelf. Seems that could cover the repairs you would see other than the case, transformer and a thermistor that is pretty much the whole inverter. Likely cheaper than a plug n play inverter.

Bottom line here is there was a problem and some delays but Outback is still on my list of products I will buy.

From now on I will use the phone for support.

A happy ending and my inverter works.

Now to pack up the old boards and get them ready to go back.

Tom
 

[wpowokal]

Well done Tom, I bet a back up in some form or other will be on your mind until you have one, infectious. 

allan

[TomW]

Well done Tom, I bet a back up in some form or other will be on your mind until you have one, infectious. 

allan

Allan;

Yeah, everyone learned from this. I learned to just use the phone first.

Outback learned a bit about customer service.

Everything is good now.

I am considering options for the inevitable "next time".

I liked your road trip post, Allan. Looked like a good bit of useful fun. Getting away is always good!

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

Tom