Quick help - Buying battery bank

[gizmoguy]

Hey everyone,

Looking for some quick advice here.  I found a craigslist ad listing 30 new enersys sbs 110 batteries for $1500.  Some have broken handles and some have missing terminal covers, but otherwise mechanically/chemically they are supposed to be fine.

What do I look for when purchasing batteries from an individual?  Besides measuring the terminal voltage, what else can I do to inspect the batteries and make sure I'm not throwing out $1500?

Also, if anyone has anything to say about these batteries NOT being used in an off grid system, please speak up!



Thanks,
Gizmoguy

[ghurd]

It would make me a little more at ease if the date was present, or the date code was understandable.  Maybe February means maybe not.

The location would make me wonder if they were abused any in their life.  Per capita, the area has a large number of poorly regulated "quick charger" car alternators connected to mower engines.  Boil out much electrolyte and the damage is done.

G-

[gizmoguy]

Thanks for the reply Ghurd!

How do I tell if they were abused or overcharged and short on electrolyte?  I spoke with the guy selling them and he says he bought them from an overstock/dented auction with the intent of going solar but bought a house and can't afford both.  Supposedly they have never seen any use and most of them still have grease on the terminals (not that it couldn't be added after using the batteries).

Are there any signs to look for, and assuming that they don't show these negative signs, would you buy them at this price?

Thanks for any advice!

Gizmoguy

[Rover]

gizmoguy ,

Assuming your going to pick these up, I'd hve a look at em before any cash transfer. Unfortunately a meter will probably not do you any good since they are probably discharged to a point you won't be able to tell. Maybe inquire if the chap can charge them?, or make the transaction contigent on their capability, trust can go both ways, see if he is agreeable to a test before purchase (if you have the capability to test).

At 1500$ , I'd be looking for more reassurance than a "say so" , and the fact they already have some "damage", may lend credence to your argument/offer.

[gizmoguy]

This is a quote from the manufacture "The SBS range of batteries utilise thin plate pure lead technology".

What does that mean?  Do I need to worry about the thin plate?  Does that make it more of a automobile battery as opposed to a true deep cycle battery?

Thanks,
Gizmoguy

[bob g]

1500 bucks is starting to be in the realm of real money for most folks, so unless this amount constitutes your pocket change
i would walk away from them.

without a complete charge and a capacity test, how can  you really tell what you are getting?

you are taking his word for the condition of the batteries, and i don't like taking anyone's word on batteries to start with.

my vote is to walk away, maybe they are ok, probably many/most are not

really won't feel like a good deal if most are various stages of no good, and those that are ok turn out to be of questionable
lifespan.

this reminds me of a crown battery for a forklift, the guy that had it wanted 1000 dollars for it. sure it was a 3000 dollar battery about 18months prior, but when i asked about the charge condition he didn't know,,, it had been sitting out in a field over the winter.
telling him dead batteries freeze seemed to be lost on him.  yes i walked away, actually before i even drove out to take a look at it.

some folks have an inflated sense of value and an rather deflated sense of what it takes to maintain batteries in good condition.

leaving them set for god know's how long is not maintaining them in good condition in most books.

bob g

[rossw]

I'm in a different country and circumstances are probably completely different.

That said, you can get a reasonable "feel" for someone over the phone, often. Not very long ago, I shelled out a far wad of cash ($5K AUD) for second-hand 2V 500AH cells. A friend of mine was going to the city (600km trip) and was generous enough to hitch my trailer up to his truck, went past, they loaded them into the trailer with a forklift and he brought them home the next day.

I was nervous. I got 50 (I wanted 48, but got some spares). I'm actually very happy with them. They were in reasonable condition (a bit scuffed externally, but volts were ok, capacity was a little down but ok). They've improved since I've had them getting a good, solid charge (60 odd amps left over after my base-load) and floating for 3-4 hours most days. They're now generally still at 48.2 to 48.3 volts in the morning before they get any sun.

[wpowokal]

How can you check, well while a quick check is not very reliable you can.

(a) check terminal voltage.
(b) look into the cells, checking for electrolyte level and any buckled plates.
(c) using a good quality hydrometer check the specific gravity.
(d) any bulging of cells and or raising of terminals.

look at this http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enersysreservepower.com%2Fdocuments%2FPS-SBS-CL-IS-UN-v2.pdf&rct=j&q=enersys%20sbs%20110%20batteries&ei=KwPtTPGsLYOmcL-b1ZwP&usg=AFQjCNHqXBKj-2bWXieoSIywucr_SsDmGA&cad=rja

I would be very reluctant to purchase second hand batteries about which I did not know the history, you do not tell us what Re system you are planning and therefore how much battery grunt you will need, this may also sway your decision. Therefore I also would recommend walking away unless they can be charged and a discharge test performed.

allan

[ghurd]

They are AGM, which rules out (b) and (c).
"New" hopefully means they show no obvious signs of (d).
Leaving only (a).

The capacity is not that high.
Could maybe do a C/10 load test.  A 10A or 12A load for 10 minutes should not drop the terminal voltage much.  The pair being tested should have propotional terminal voltages as when they started (if one was 6.20V, other was 6.25V, then at the end they should not be 5.8V {a bad one} and 6.15V).
Time consuming, especially when there are 15 strings involved.

I am stuck on their physical location.
Do a simple Google of the town 11 miles West.
1)  Good batteries in that area have value, even scratch&dent, because the locals don't care about the cosmetics.  Just makes me wonder why the distributor/retailer had to put them in an auction in the first place.
2)  The vast majority of deep cycle batteries in that area have been heavily abused in a very short time.
G-

[SteveCH]

I haven't priced new batteries [lead/acid] in some yr. since I bought mine, in the 90s. So my expectations are probably out of date, except I realize batteries will be pricier than back then.

That being said, $1500 is well within the range of brand-spanking-new forklift batteries, such as I have. Probably not more than 1200 amp hr but brand new. For me, that is just too much money on untested, unknown batteries. I once purchased a used set for $300 I thought I had tested adequately and they lasted me about six months before they were junk. Just be advised.....

[dnix71]

My 2 cents. Walk away. You can buy a properly rebuilt forklift battery with a 2 year warranty for a little more money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Reconditioned-Forklift-Batteries-24-36-48-Volt-/170567623725?pt=Forklifts_Other_Lifts&hash=item27b69f642d#shId

We looked at buying one of these for a lift in the shop with a dead battery but will probably buy new because a new battery will probably last for the remaining life of the lift.

[bob g]

has anyone tried one of these used forklift batteries?

i am considering getting one for a 48volt system that will likely not be cycled anywhere near as hard as it would in a forklift.

however i am not sure i want to put out between 2 and 3 grand for a used or rebuilt battery without having some feedback from
a few folks that have bought and used one.

anyone?

bob g

[Tritium]

has anyone tried one of these used forklift batteries?

i am considering getting one for a 48volt system that will likely not be cycled anywhere near as hard as it would in a forklift.

however i am not sure i want to put out between 2 and 3 grand for a used or rebuilt battery without having some feedback from
a few folks that have bought and used one.

anyone?

bob g

I got a reconditioned forklift battery from a firm in Canada. They freighted it UPS freight and it got here a week late
and in "bad" shape (read that cells shifted in the case and acid leaking). Sent it back.
It took about 4 months to get most of my money back. NEVER again!

Thurmond

[TomW]

has anyone tried one of these used forklift batteries?

bob g

Not reconditioned but this guy seems to have done well on a used lift truck battery:

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,144104.0.html

Not sure you can trust his judgment but I know for a fact he is very happy with his used battery but only 3 months of use

Tom

[dnix71]

Trucking can be a problem with used forklift batteries. We bought a used walk-behind Crown and it came in DOA. The sister company that sold it to us insisted it was in good working order when it left. Neither DEKA nor Crown could resurrect it. The warehouse manager let me at it just before they were going to scrap it and I figured out the voltage had gone so low the built-in charger wouldn't turn on.

Force charging 1/2 at a time with a common car battery charger brought it back to life.

Moral is pay someone to freight it who won't pound on it in transit.

We've had a lot of stuff unnecessarily wrecked by careless trucking [an expensive German made digital color printer, a press plate maker and a collator were also banged up badly]. The plate maker had scrapes on the front inside the box because some iD10T rammed it with a forklift and flipped it on it's back before the forks pierced the bottom of the box and went right up the front. We didn't think to open the box before signing for it because the top and sides looked fine.

Fortunately the boss, his wife and the shop manager were all present at the time of delivery so I didn't get blamed for that one.

[SteveCH]

I went through all sorts of possibilities when buying my forklift-type set of C&Ds. I eventually decided to buy a new set, painful as it was to my pocketbook. I bought them through a dealer, and I had to pay trucking, but they were delivered to the dealer and they made sure everything was good before I picked them up.

It was more money than used, but no hassles and I have been running the house from them for almost two decades.