Author Topic: Waking up a battery pack  (Read 6733 times)

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Dutch John

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Waking up a battery pack
« on: December 25, 2010, 10:56:02 AM »
Got a 28 year old forklift battery pack. Flooded lead-acid 2V cells. 325 Ah. It was never used and stacked unflooded. I filled the cells with common 37% 1.28 sulfuric acid and waited one hour to add some more. The cells were hand warm and the acid level dropped to 1.10.  .7V over the pack of 12 cells. Charging with a regular charger was unsuccesful. Gassing after 10 minutes, whether the charging mode was 25V 5A or 28V 30A. The cells did not accept any power, acid remained 1.10, voltage after charging 24.0V. After charging still minor gasing and slowly voltage dropping. Short boosts of 80A made the cells gassing excessively, like foaming.

What could be wrong? Any suggestions to wake them up?

Happy holidays,
DJ

bob g

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 11:11:17 AM »
plates are probably oxidized after that length of time,

you might just put it on the charger, set at 5amps and let is charge for a day, and see what you have.

of course keep on eye on it, chart the specific gravity, and make sure the cells don't overheat.

then load the thing down and drain it a ways, and repeat the charging

it may take many charge discharge cycles to get the capacity to come up, but it should with each cycle.

i would do that first before i added any chemical treatment that is all the rage, or before i used a desulfator that is
also very popular.

just give em some time, they like the rest of us are getting old, and don't like to just be woken up and told to get to work!

:)

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
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JW

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 11:35:58 AM »
Quote
I filled the cells with common 37% 1.28 sulfuric acid and waited one hour to add some more.

I would measure the specific gravity of the electrolite it shound be somewhere around  1.265

here is a helpfull link-    http://www.engineersedge.com/battery/specific_gravity_battery.htm

Chances are if it was stored "dry" it should be ok if the SG is right.

 I have on occasion added ACS sulfuric acid to battery cells to adjust the SG, I will add the sulfuric upon 9.6 volts in a pre measure amount of say 1 fl ounce, let the cells equalize, then go thru a charging cycle, then measure SG, if its not hitting atleast 1.260 upon battery float over 14 volts, then repeat the process until you can reach 1.265 upon float.

Before you filled the battery, you should have measured the SG of the electrolite. using a hydrometer to verify a reading of 1.265 SG. When to describe the out-gassing from the cells, this leads me to think, the electrolite you added was to weak. When you buy ready made electrolite its rated by its SG rating usually around 1.260
JW

« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 11:53:09 AM by JW »

JW

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 01:26:58 PM »
Just realized something.

Quote
common 37% 1.28 sulfuric acid

If that "1.28" is the SG reading, before fill, then you are fine/ok.

Quote from: JW
I have on occasion added ACS sulfuric acid to battery cells to adjust the SG, I will add the sulfuric upon 9.6 volts in a pre measure amount of say 1 fl ounce, let the cells equalize, then go thru a charging cycle, then measure SG, if its not hitting atleast 1.260 upon battery float over 14 volts, then repeat the process until you can reach 1.265 upon float.

If your still getting alot of out-gassing from the plates upon charge, just double check the SG.

jw

bob g

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 02:07:03 PM »
according to rolls/surrette engineers, (a maker of flooded lead acid cells)

they dry charge their cells, and then wash them down, dry the plates and assemble the battery
the battery can be stored for 5 years in this state without any degradation and that is warranted

i press them because i wanted to have a shelf life of 10 years, i was told that they would expect some degradation
of capacity, but not much

after 28 years i would expect some serious degradation, because of oxidation and hardening of the pasted plates
this should get better after maybe 50 charge/discharge cycles.

in years past, dry charged cells, were flushed with nitrogen and sealed with little plastic caps that you had to dig out
under the watering caps, they popped out with a whoosh sound, you added acid and put them on a charger for a couple hours
before putting them in the vehicle, although they generally would start the vehicle right after being juiced up.

i really believe you just need to cycle these things pretty hard a few dozen times, and chart their progress, my bet is they come back to usable if not original capacity after maybe 50 cycles or so.

even if you don't plan on deep cycling them in you application, it is important that you do so at first, this opens up the pores, reactivates the pasted plates and forces them to do their thing, otherwise light cycling really doesn't get the action working well.

rolls/surrette states that their batteries will not deliver their rated capacity until after a few dozen deep discharge/recharge cycles.

i can't imagine any other flooded lead acid battery being any different, especially after sitting dry for so long.

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

Isaiah

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 12:42:55 AM »
Keep us updated on the progress  as you go along with this project.
If possible set them out side while you are charging them. But don't let them freeze. when they start to come to life it wont hurt to run a desulfator on it.
 We have a old Tungar bulb type charger that we use  on the battery's we are trying to reclaim. the bulb was updated to solid state rectifiers.
 Last spring I was given two  old used 1000 amp tractor battery's after all summer we saved the one and the other went to the scrap pile for recycle.
 Don't be afraid to spend some time getting the battery to charge. If you can get it up to charge it will make a nice battery bank.

Flux

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 04:16:07 PM »
I believe that even dry charged cells have a limit on practical life. I would expect serious problems after 28years.

You seem to have all the symptoms of sulphate. I really don't know what chance you have of decent results, i am inclined to suspect that you may end up with something possibly useful but of low capacity. Try prolonged charging at a fairly low current from a high voltage source with some form of current limit ballast. In desperation you might try reverse charging a few times and discharging until you get a bit of response.

Treatment with EDTA may be of some use to break through the sulphate layer, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Pulse desulphators as far as I am concerned don't work but even that is worth a try in case the problem is lack of contact of the active material with the grids.

If these had been used then forget it but if they are new it's worth a try. good luck.

Flux

Dutch John

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 02:01:51 PM »
Got them back alive. Automotive chargers did not work for whatever reason. A decent industrial forklift charger did the job. It was really a matter of patience. 7 days of charging, while the charger kept the voltage around 30 and a relatively low charge (2 burning leds of 4, 25 amp. charger). At some point the acid level did not improve. I then put on a load of about 60 amps for half an hour and started charging again. Did this several times and now all cells measure an acid level of 1.29-1.30, coming from an estimated 1.00 (floater's lowest number is 1.10).

Not saying this is the ulitimate solution, but it worked for me. It feels good, the cells keep the charge and allow the nominal load. Well, and life expectancy, time will tell...
Hope to erect the turbine next weekend. Keep you informed.

Regards,
DJ

Madscientist267

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 05:01:00 PM »
Keep exercising them, the oxide layer formed from all that time is probably resisting the absorption of the electrolyte into the plates.

Hard charge, let sit, hard discharge, let sit. So on and so forth. Watch the temp (as mentioned) and eventually they should wake up.

You probably won't ever see full capacity out of it, but I'd say if you get to even 75% rated you'd be doing well.

Steve
The size of the project matters not.
How much magic smoke it contains does !

thirteen

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 07:20:18 AM »
It sound like you are getting results so I was just wondering how the battery is working out. 
MntMnROY 13

Dutch John

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Re: Waking up a battery pack
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 02:26:37 AM »
Well, still in early stages, but it looks like they still are improving. At first the cells needed fairly much time to charge, but that it getting better. Like Madscientist says: they need some exercising. Whipping a sleeping old man needs time to get him running and building up some muscles....

Regards,
DJ