Author Topic: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine  (Read 2599 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Walt

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« on: April 15, 2011, 04:34:10 PM »
It's been some time since I have posted. My question is about amperage. I have gages on each phase. Each phase is showing 12+ amps. What is  the total amps on a three phase generator. The reason that I amp asking is that this turbines output was about 50+ amps in a 30 mph wind. I took a direct hit of lightning on the turbine and one phase was blown open.  Since then the the output of the  turbine has been lower than the normal output.  Any advise is welcome.

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5375
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 06:04:31 PM »
What if anything are you seeing on the other phases? What are the meters showing?
There are a few things you can do to assess damages done.
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

fabricator

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3394
  • Country: us
  • My smoke got out again
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 08:53:54 PM »
Build a new stator.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

imsmooth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 09:29:36 PM »
The easiest way would be to put the three phases through a rectifier and capacitor filter.  You would then measure the voltage and current.  Voltage x current will give you the wattage.

Seekscore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: us
    • Colorado Professional Repair
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2011, 09:52:32 PM »
If you think one of the phases are blown open, you could do a quick check. Ensure the turbine is not spinning and ohm out between phases. If one is " open", then you'll need to make another stator. A-B, B-C and C-A should be close to the same resistance.

Mike

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2011, 03:19:04 AM »
Not enough information to answer your question.  How is it connected ( star/delta/IRP), what was blown open by the lightning strike ( winding, connections, rectifier?)

What do your meters in the individual phases measure?

Normally if it is star connected and you open circuit one phase it becomes a single phase generator with much reduced performance and more vibration. You seem to be implying you are still measuring current in each phase so I really have no idea what your connections are or what you are measuring.

Flux

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 04:03:12 AM »
One thing that comes to mind is that after a lightening strike the rectifier is one of the things most likely to be damaged. Unless you are very familiar with testing rectifiers I suggest that you replace it completely and have another try.

Shorted or open diodes will muck up the performance. A shorted diode might be fairly obvious but an open one will possibly not show such a drastic change in performance.

Flux

scoraigwind

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
  • Country: gb
    • www.scoraigwind.co.uk
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 03:05:15 AM »
It's been some time since I have posted. My question is about amperage. I have gages on each phase. Each phase is showing 12+ amps. What is  the total amps on a three phase generator. The reason that I amp asking is that this turbines output was about 50+ amps in a 30 mph wind. I took a direct hit of lightning on the turbine and one phase was blown open.  Since then the the output of the  turbine has been lower than the normal output.  Any advise is welcome.

If by each phase you mean each of the 3 wires going to the rectifier, then the DC current is a bit higher than this. (Exactly how much depends on the waveform).  So you can add maybe 25-40% on to the AC rms line current to estimate the DC output current.
Hugh Piggott scoraigwind.co.uk

kevbo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Total Amperage from Wind Turbine
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 02:04:30 PM »
IF (big if) the current is sinusoidal, and equal in all three phases, then the net current is ~1.7 (square root of three) times the current in one leg.  In a DC circuit you would have, say, 5 amps in the positive lead, and 5 amps in the negative lead, and 5 amps flowing through the load...5 amps is the answer, not 10, even though there are two wires each carrying 5 amps.  Similarly, in a three phase AC circuit, you can't just add up measurements from each wire...1.7 is the correct factor, not 3.

That is almost certainly the wrong answer for a wind turbine or other alternator directly  charging batteries though, because measuring AC with accuracy is a fussy business, and there are many ways to get the wrong answer.  Poorly done AC measurement is what is behind a number of "over unity" (perpetual motion) claims, in fact.

There are several different ways that meters can measure current (and voltage) with AC.  "True RMS" is the only method that is valid for any waveform, but only higher priced meters will do this for voltage, and only the very best will do it for current (amps).   If Tektronics, HP, or Fluke claim "true RMS" it is probably OK.  Other instrument makers will vary on how "true" their "true RMS" measurements are, and there is probably a strong relationship between true and price.  

All the other methods of metering AC assume that the waveform is sinusoidal and use a conversion factor to convert what is actually measured into an "RMS" value.  If the waveform is not sinusoidal, that value will be wrong. How wrong depends on exactly how the meter makes the measurement, and how much the waveform departs from a sine wave.  In practical terms, there is no way of knowing.

Even if your alternator puts out a faithful sine wave when unloaded, the current will still not be sinusoidal when you are charging batteries through a rectifier.  There will be a large current pulse near the + and - peaks of the voltage waveform, and nothing for the rest of the cycle.  Sort of like what a "modified sine" inverter produces, only more so.

Additionally, many "amp clamp" meters are only calibrated at 60 Hz, and can have significant errors at higher and lower frequencies...and those non-sinusoidal waveforms have quite a bit of harmonic content at 3,5, and 7 times the fundamental, so even if you knew a correction factor for frequency, you wouldn't know how to apply it for the various harmonics.

ETA: ampmeters on the AC lines are stil  useful for relative measurements.  If you add resistance to the line and observe higher current readings, then you are seeing a real improvement, and it will probably be fairly close to proportional to the increase in readings.   You can  also make readings on the DC side and come up with a calibration chart that will equate your AC and DC readings, but these will change a bit depending on your battery state of charge.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 02:15:49 PM by kevbo »