Author Topic: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU  (Read 13448 times)

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smokepolehall

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Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« on: April 27, 2011, 09:47:08 AM »
Morning every one. Would a pr of these panels be a good start for an off grid system ? I have 4 Energizer 6v set up as 12v & have a Vector Maxx 750 watt inverter. What would be a good MPPT controller ? I plan on having 8 panels but can only afford 2 & a reasonable priced controller at this time. I have been using a gen. & battery charger & its getting real deep into our fixed income, thx

DanG

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 10:36:55 AM »
Why this particular panel? Can you buy locally for a reasonable price and dodge paying freight shipping?

I see it has a black finished frame with claims for improved structural strength with more mounting options - where in the world do you live?

There are other traditional panels with CE, TUV, CETLUS, UL listings with 30% more watts for the lowest price I found for the KD135GX.

For the MPPT charger - planning for eight panels with 1200 watts the charger will not be cheap...

DanG

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 10:44:54 AM »
Just a note on 12V and how wattage vs. volts affects the chargers...

For a major brand MPPT charger with 45 amp limit, the maximum nominal solar inputs are:

12 volt    600 Watts panels
24 volt    1200 Watts panels
48 volt    2400 Watts panels

To use all eight future panels (135 x 8 = 1080w) would mean an inverter voltage upgrade somewhere along the way...

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 11:42:26 AM »
No reason for the panel pick, i just had been reading that they made good panels. I live in Howell county Mo. 22 miles North of Ark. We live in a 12x18' cabin & have been living off grid for 2 yrs using gen. batterys & auto charger & the Vector 750 watt inverter. We have 2 fl. tube lights 15 & 20 watts  2 laptop computers w/their ac adapters 19" color TV & sanyo dvd player a crockpot & a 7cu freezer 1.8 amp comp. Our cooking is done by propane & so is our fridge, both salvaged from a camping trailer 79 model. I know nothing about solar panels or controllers or their special inverters. I do know we need to get off of this gas sucking gen. system as a full time living means. We can't get comm. power & don't think it will happen for another 8 yrs. All help & comments welcome, i don't read nor write & comprehend well as i am slow but not retarted. I am disabled & learn my things mostly by on the job working with someone.

ghurd

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 11:54:41 AM »
I agree with DanG.

270W of solar and 2 pairs of golf cart batteries is a good start.

If holding off on a MPPT controller for the time being, that leaves a few options.

Morningstar SS-20 (PWM) in 12V for about $100.  No room for expansion.  Very little resale value.

Morningstar TS-60 (PWM) for about $200.  Room for expansion.  Works with 12, 24, and 48V.  Pretty easy to sell when you upgrade, because it can be configured for solar, wind, etc.

If you are handy with a soldering iron and want to go really cheap (~$25), could use a ghurd controller configured for solar (no dump load).  Easy to expand when more panels are added.  I recommend something fancier with >1000W, but it would do the job until the funds are available for a MPPT.
( http://i701.photobucket.com/albums/ww20/ghurd1/Sketches/NoLoadSlrKit.jpg )

MPPT is expensive.  Do not get tempted with crap on ebay from China claiming to be MPPT, because it is fake.
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smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 12:34:18 PM »
Why this particular panel? Can you buy locally for a reasonable price and dodge paying freight shipping?

The only local wants to be an installer & his prices on panels is the same as if they were shipped in.
 DanG what panels would you recommend & watts ? We can get $1100 from Bank by geeting a loan against our CD. So can any of you outline a small system that will help offset this gen. use ? Were using $200 a month in gas. I just had read where the MPPT was the better way to send power from panels to the battery bank. I have no soldering iron just a small propane torch & rolled solder.

ghurd

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 12:57:49 PM »
Do Not use plumbing solder on electrical things!
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smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 01:34:58 PM »
gHurd thx about solder & i have solder for using on electic. You agreeded with DanG about the 270 watts & the battery bank, but DanG only commented that the panel i had choosen could be more costly & less watts than others he knew of. So i am getting abit confused, what make & watt panels should i start with ? I have the 12v inverter will it work with any of those Pwm controllers ? If not then what inverter at a affordable price would be a good buy ? After i invest this $1100 it will take us a yr til we can add anything else, thx

ghurd

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 03:25:57 PM »
About any solar panel brand is fine.  I would look at the price per watt.
I like the name brand because the quality is always good.
No name Chinese solar panels may be good, or may not be good.

Except:  Buy Monocrystalline, or polycrystalline (also known as multicrystalline).
Do Not buy amorphous silicon or thin film panels.

The inverter and controller have no effect on each other.  Can use any inverter with any controller.
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DanG

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 10:02:55 AM »
There is a cut-rate PV supplier with Miami/Phoenix offices (sunelec.com) that occasionally has excellent deals...

They act (are) very busy and to get any real information on availability or shipping charges they want to hook buyers during telephone conversations, so y'all are warned, have a list of questions to ask and back-off to call back later... Calling them to find the size/weight where their panels become freight-only would be an education, I know some of the full price online retail stores go freight above 80 watt panels since the shipping boxes exceed 48-inch surcharge UPS, FedEx etc. length rules that kick in around that panel size.

A couple of years ago I got some of their own Sun label panels made with German-made black wafers w/o front tab conductors that are ~20% efficient conversion, the foundry making them keeps 97% of the production for in-house distribution only and I was happy to get some samples of them. Similar PV wafers (monocrystalline black squares) are now made in more places but not at that highest efficiency, I'd skip the blue polycrystalline if I had a choice in the panel size I wanted just because I could.

dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2011, 10:11:01 PM »
I've bought 400 watts of panel from eBay (100 watts each in pairs from two separate sellers). I chose 'Buy It Now' and 'Free Shipping' because that's the only way to get a decent price per watt. Almost no one outside of eBay will sell panels and tell you upfront what the shipping costs are, and the shipping for large expensive panels is almost as much as the panel sometimes.

I paid $2.60 a watt delivered for nice poly panels with mc4 connectors. One set of panels even has CE and UL certs so they would be legal for grid-tie.

If you search eBay for '100 watt solar panel' and scroll down most times you will see something like what I bought available. Don't buy straight up. Ask a question of the seller and ask if they will sell you 2 or 4 at a time.

Most manufacturers that box panels rather than palletize them put 2 in a box face to face. That's the safest, cheapest way to ship. If you buy pairs the reseller will simply reship in the original makers box, not a homemade box. If something goes wrong in shipping, both seller and buyer have recourse, since the carrier should not have damaged panels left in the original manufacturer's box.

As for a mppt, I have 2 BZ's and like both. They make a big difference in charging batteries over just a straight hookup with a blocking diode. You can buy a BZ 500 watt MPPT for about $220 that accepts panels in series up to 100 volts open circuit. My panels are doubled up so the Voc is 35-40. That gets me power earlier in the morning and in partial shade and cloudy days. You need at least 100 watts of panel for that controller to be worth it. I have 400 watts on the BZ500 and 351 on the BZ250. I get away that on the BZ 250 because solar panel ratings are not true numbers.

You won't get 100 watts out of a 100 watt panel except under conditions that won't likely happen in the real world. More sun means more heat. Heat kills panel output. That why ghurd advised staying away from thin-film. Those fade in the heat more than mono or poly crystalline. My BZ250 has a bunch of cheap Harbor Freight thin-film panels on it. They were the least expensive panels years ago, but now they are not a very good deal. Even with a sale coupon you will have to visit a Harbor Freight retail store to get them for less than $3.75/watt. The "controllers" that come with the HF kits are only good for lightweight power outlets.

The two mppt's are hooked up to the same battery bank and work just fine like that. I set the float voltage of the BZ250 higher than the BZ500. That makes the system act like a 3 stage charger with the smaller set doing the final float.

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj62/dnix71/?action=view&current=IMG_0002.jpg is a picture of my panels set up in the back yard.
http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj62/dnix71/?action=view&current=IMG_0006.jpg is a picture of the two mppt on the wall inside.

I have 8 hybrid marine start/deep cycle batteries and those run my computer, lights, fan and 12v Engel fridge. I even have enough power on sunny days to run a washing machine from an inverter and still have a full charge at the end of the day. That's the biggest trick with solar. Work while the sun shines and you have excess power that would otherwise go to waste.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 07:40:25 PM »
I found a Dealer on ebay 125 watt panels 2 at $598 free shipping brand is UL Solar Inc. ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SUPER STORE. Has ul iec tuv certs 25 yr warranty any good?
 

dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
I wouldn't trust the warranty on any solar panel for 25 years. It's unlikely any company would be around that long. UL Solar, Inc. has it's own site. The eBay store you mention may be them under another name. Both stores are in Las Vegas and the prices are exactly the same.

The panel specs say +/- 5% which probably means -5% if they are "on sale" cheap. I have worked for printers almost my entire adult life, and one of the unspoken dirty secrets of the printing business is we are allowed to short-sheet you up to 5% unless the contract specifies otherwise, to allow for setup/production waste . If you must have full count for some reason you must say so up front.

There are some panel makers who pride themselves on not going under spec.

In your case it doesn't matter. You aren't going to notice the difference between 119 and 125 watts in real life anyway. But if you were doing a commercial install you might not want to come up 5% short.

Those look like nice panels, esp. with the mc4 connectors and the certs. The price is right around $2.50/watt delivered, so you aren't likely to find anything less expensive buying a small quantity like that.

richhagen

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2011, 06:04:21 PM »
I have purchased UL solar panels before.  Only small 10W ones, but they bear a sticker from a California Address, but a bit of research which I don't have in front of me turned up the exact factory in China that they were made in - although the factory basically sells them by the container load.  I contacted UL solar directly and got a better price than the Ebay price on those that I bought.  They were reasonably constructed of standard appearing materials, tempered glass, eva, cells, eva, tedlar type polyflouro plastic on the back.  They did perform at approximately their specs.  That said, I see that Sunelec Miami has panels (which I have also bought) of similar quality construction to the ones I bought for less at present.  Sunelec is not big on customer service, but they have generally among the best prices. If you can reach Mr. Kimball directly he is knowledgeable and helpful, but they have an army of call takers that seem to me to be determined to avoid that, and my experience and opinion is that the order takers seem to know little about what they have, and what they are selling, so if you go with them make sure you know what you need from their inventory.   You would in my opinion, get much better advice from here on what you need for a system, and as a general rule I try to avoid relying on only vendor advice anyway.  Especially seeing some of the reliable folks you have gotten responses to your query from here already.

Now, if it were me, seeing that you have the batteries that you have in hand, if I could get the hang of soldering, I would rig one of Glen's dirt cheap controllers to start with to regulate the input as a charge controller, (I have installed a few modified ones that he rigged up for a project for me and am not aware of any failures with them) and if funds permit a second rigged as a load controller, and then I would put the extra savings into as much solar to charge them as I can reasonably get and the controller can handle as I rig it.  In this way, for about the least amount of money, I could get basic charge and load control functions, and then as much charging current into the batteries as I could manage.

The reason that I think a load controller is important  is that almost invariably when I look at systems that I have rigged after a time that have failed, the cause is almost invariably that the batteries have failed.  For systems without automatic low voltage cut offs, this is often do to people running the batteries to too low of a state of charge and thereby seriously shortening the number of charge/discharge cycles their batteries will survive which of course means premature failure.  A low voltage cut off enforces a bit of discipline on the user as long as they decide to never bypass it and avoids negligence in forgetting to continuously monitor the state of the batteries.  For the remote off grid systems I put in at various generally poor communities without experience with electricity or batteries, I will in general no longer install a system without an automatic load control if I can avoid it, but even for my own systems with batteries, I make sure that I have them to help avoid this most common cause of battery murder - batteries over time, being about the most expensive part of any off grid solar power system because of their shorter life span than other components.  The 10.4V or so cut off of most cheap inverters is far too low to maximize the utility of the golf cart batteries that it appears that you have on your system.  Anyway, this is just my opinion.  Rich
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smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 05:55:08 PM »
I went & also did some research the ol solar hasn't been in business too long & their China built panel  at the ir factory either. So when in doubt you pay for a company with a track record. I ordered & paid for 2 Kyocera 135 watt panels. Which leads to the MC4 panel cabels, i know i need 2 50' one positive & one neg. What do i need to conect them together so all the power can go into the 2 50' cabels to the charge controller ?

ghurd

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2011, 01:25:56 AM »
Depends on the controller.

Most/Many MPPT controllers will take the voltage of the 2 panels in series.  So just need a pos and a neg MC4 cable, and the panels connect together in series.

If not MPPT, or a "12V input" MPPT controller, need a set of multibranch connectors.
See the info and links here,
http://www.solar-electric.com/kyso130wa12v.html

G-
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dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2011, 01:31:31 AM »
Two of these

 http://solarelectricdistributor.com/shoppingcart/products/MC4-BRANCH-SOCKET-MULTI%252dCONTACT-$13.90-ea-%252d-PV%252dAZB4-%252d-GENERATION-4.html
Assuming you are going to attach the panels in parallel for 12v nominal and more amps. Then you only need two wires with mc4 connectors to bring the output inside.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280414439316&hlp=false&rvr_id=233665845541&clk_rvr_id=233665845541&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=M*F%3F&GUID=0baa7e9f1300a47a44b478f4fed129e8&itemid=280414439316&ff4=263602_304652
Only one pair of these is needed. The inside end of your cable will be connected differently.

Buy your own cable and buy the optional tool with the mc4 set above and it's a lot cheaper.  http://www.solar-electric.com/hardware---wire.html  sells stranded cable by the foot.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 08:49:28 PM »
If i set up a combiner box close to my panels & had a 50' run to my charge controller what size wire would i need ?

dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 10:01:58 PM »
You don't need a box next to the panels. The mc4 connectors are either series (no extra part for that, just connect one panel + to the other panel -) or parallel. One of the links I listed is for a parallel - to - and + to + setup.

Make 2 50' cables, one with a male mc4 and the other with a female mc4 to run wire back to the house. MC4 connectors are water-proof. All you have to do is support/bury/conduit the 2 wires coming back. The last choice is a matter of code and your preference. Once inside strip the end bare and connect to your controller with an inline fuse on one side.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 09:18:39 AM »
dnix71, thx i will get the cables & pr of the mc4 spliters after the 1st of June payday,  ;D

DualFuel

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 08:53:18 AM »
You know...
We did this panel comparision shopping back before the forum changed formats. Since then...I have bought panels and equipment from both Wholesale Solar, and Northern Arizona Wind and Sun. Both places sell the Kyocera 135 watt panels. I shy away from the type that doesn't have the junction box. Adding the MC-4 connectors, brings up the price another $25 dollars or so per panel.

Stay away from this inverter...
http://cgi.ebay.com/5000w-Pure-Sine-Wave-Power-Inverter-12vdc-110v-220vac-/320678778401?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa9f1d621

It didn't last long enough to even find out whether it would run an induction motor.

We buy our solar stuff with our tax refund. So I know about the fixed income constraint.

Northern Tool sells a $30 charge controller that works fine with the Kyocera 135 watt panel. I used to get seven amps out of our panels and run it throu the charge controller into our batterys, at the old bush.

DualFuel

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 09:12:44 AM »
I guess what I should have written in the previous post, was that I have soured on Ebay/China stuff, but have had great sucess with reputable dealers. Its the old "you get what you pay for" type lesson. I do reccomend the Kyocera 135watt panels as shipped from NAW&S or WS. They arrived in great shape and worked immedieately out of the box. Since then, they have held up to our intense winters with no visible damage. Our first panel is 5 years old now.
We use this charge controller now...


I no longer can find our inverter for sale. It was a 5000/10000w MSW. We bought four. Three are still working daily after 5 years, while the fourth lost its magic smoke. (I do believe an insect got into the innards).
I continue to maintain that people on fixed incomes should buy the best/highest wattage inverter, then feed it with a multitude of free or cheap DC sources.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 10:54:55 PM »
I received my panels today & opened them up for inspection. UPS driver was mad i was making him wait & never had me sign for them. They looked nice.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2011, 10:20:39 PM »
I put my small solar set-up to working this evening. Finished up with it at 5.40 pm. So looking forward to tomorrow & sunshine to see how they do.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2011, 12:47:22 PM »
I hooked up panels in series & current is running 8.9 amps but the BZ250HV controller is showing 12.9 v & the float charge red light is showing. So is the float voltage adjustment too low ? Factory says its set at 14.1

dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2011, 02:20:16 PM »
I have been getting a lot of PM's about the setup. Without a volt meter and pixs it's hard to tell what's going on. SPH says he's seeing up to 11 amps going in but the battery voltage doesn't come up above 12.9v That makes no sense.

Here are pixs of me BZ250 wired up inside.


showing current


showing charging voltage


back side

Taken at 2:15pm local time in full sun. The float light is on (hard to tell from the pix). I set my float high because I have 8 flooded deep cycle 12v. There is a 0.3v difference between the BZ panel display of 14.8 and the real battery voltage of 14.5 (not shown). This difference only occurs during a hard charge. At rest the numbers are exactly the same.

The yellow dot above the toroid is the float trim pot adjustment.

The panels feeding it are doubled up to make about 40v open circuit.

If you suspect the BZ is bad, you can bypass it for a day or two. Just go from your panels to the battery directly and see if they charge. You should add a schottky diode in line unless you are sure the panels don't have a blocking diode already.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 02:37:44 PM by dnix71 »

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2011, 10:32:44 PM »
I took the controller down & statrted adjusting the voltage set-pt. It must have been set really low, as today wore on i was getting 13.4v showing & 12.6 amps. Still after 7 hrs in sun it never got my batterys fully charged. There was some clouding & i ck'ed at 7 pm its showing 12.6v. I will watch controller again tomorrow

dnix71

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2011, 07:00:59 PM »
Glad to hear you got it adjusted properly.

You will have a hard time topping off 4 golf cart batteries like that with just 2 panels, unless you are careful about how much you use, and about watering the batteries. I have about 3 times the panel power (710 watts) you do and 8 12v group 34's and all I run is a small fridge, lights and a computer, except for rare occasions when I need to wash clothes off grid.

The best balance is to have about 100 watts of panel per battery. You only have 1/2 that, so you will need to monitor your use carefully.

Each 12v battery I have has a theoretical 1 kwh in it. Your 6v batteries have a theoretical 1.2 kwh each. If you bring in 150 watts from the panels for 4 hours that's only 1/2 of 1 battery's capacity.

And, if even one of those batteries is weak it will take down the whole string. I just replaced the 2 weakest in my lot and I get an extra .2v at the end of the day. You should get a volt meter and check each battery separately near the end of the day when things are charged up. It's not easy to properly equalize a parallel string like that.

smokepolehall

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Re: Kyocera Solar Panel KD135GX-LPU
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2011, 03:32:04 PM »
I will get a meter, which type the multi or battery hydrometer? I fooled with that set pt again for an hr or so. Its at 15.2v & hitting 14's on amps but it bounces up & down. Touchy set pt, breath on it & it goes down 2v's or up same way. I have 4 50 watt panels on lay a way plan with an older man that had been living out in Ariz. Siemens panels. I will hook them up to my 2 12v Maxx 29's they have 250 amps & i hope to run my small 1.8 amp freezer off of them ?