Author Topic: HomeMade Wind Turbine Help (Read 10484 times)

kill_seth · « **on:** July 01, 2011, 04:00:20 PM »

Hello everyone,
I am new to everything about Wind Energy so please have patience with me.
I have a few questions concerning my idea and motor I have.

First off let me explain what I am trying to do.

I live in Texas and it's always hot, so my air conditioner costs the most money to run.
I want to hook up a wind turbine to just my air conditioner on the roof of my house.
After doing some research, I still can't seem to grasps the concept of things.

I first thought all I needed to do was:

Wind Turbine---DC Motor---Battery---Air Conditioner

Then I found out I needed to do this:

Wind Turbine---DC Motor--Charge Controller--Battery--DC to AC Inverter--Air Conditioner

Let me know if that is correct. Also, if there is any tutorials located on this site please point me in the right direction.
Another thing I may need is the correct controller to get, I'm pretty sure the ac runs at 100 to 250.
I also have two 12V batteries that came with the wheelchair, but I might buy 2 deep cycle marine batteries to bank.

Now let me tell you what motor I currently have.

Model: Motion #73464
Volts: 24VDC
RPM: 3000

There is a constant 5-10MPH wind daily where I live and we get 30-60MPH winds all the time.
I pulled the motor out of an old wheelchair I had in my shed. I hooked it up and tested it and can confirm it puts out energy.
I already have a design in mind, the only problem is hooking the motor up to the battery.
I would also like to have the power go directly to the air conditioner when the battery is full, if that is possible.
Any advice would be great, thanks!

wpowokal · « **Reply #1 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:49:00 PM »

First welcome.

Most tutorials can be found on retailers web sites, here is a link on wind from Home Power http://homepower.com/article/?file=HP110_pg10_Woofenden it will give you the basic concept.

The motor you quote is not suitable for a wind turbine as it's rated RPM is some 8-10 times too high and would need gearing which is not impossible just complicates things.

Try telling us the rated watts of your "air conditioner", your description of winds is a bit confusing which wind speed do you get and for how many hours/day?

Allan of the jungle

kill_seth · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:57:11 PM »

I will check the watts when it cools down outside.

Like I said above, the wind speed is 5MPH - 10MPH Daily.
According to AccuWeather: "E at 15 mph Gusts: 48 mph"
I have built a vertical prototype, but after assembling it the fan spins the wrong way.
I will fix that tomorrow.

I live in El Paso, Texas if you'd like to see the wind charts. It gets very windy here more then 3 times a week.
I though if I would get high wind speeds, which occor regularly, the motor I have would work just fine.
To charge the two 12V batteries that is, am I mistaken?

Rover · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2011, 08:13:07 PM »

First off, I congratulate you on making the effort, and for doing some research.

Bad news, is that air conditioning in its typical sense, is one of the most power hungry things to try to accomplish with RE. There are a lot of factors , choosing the right inverter to handle start up loads on the compressor for one.

I really hate to to bring down the thought you have, but I don't believe it can be accomplished without a much (very much larger ) battery bank than I think you realize, probably powered by a an extensive solar array along with wind power.

I can't give you details on how much power our mill will produce based on what you have given, but I'm pretty certain it still won't be enough to power even a window air conditioning unit reliably.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

wpowokal · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2011, 05:22:41 AM »

Quote

There is a constant 5-10MPH wind daily where I live and we get 30-60MPH winds all the time.

First post

Quote

Like I said above, the wind speed is 5MPH - 10MPH Daily.
According to AccuWeather: "E at 15 mph Gusts: 48 mph"

Your second post

OK whichever, 15 MPH is around 6 M/s normally considered cut in wind speed for most wind turbines.

I suspect you have an evaporation air cooler as opposed to refrigerated air conditioner, but it is a bit hard to work out due to the language difficulty.

Once you have done some more research you will discover that a couple of deep cycle marine 12V batteries will not run very much even less so if they only get a good charge every few days, and NO............... your motor will not work effectively without gearing. Motorized wheel chair motors and batteries are probably quite good at propelling people down sidewalks and thus causing chaos but as wind generators and storage batteries they are not suitable by and large.

Take a deep breath give us as much information as you can and someone will guide you but you must be prepared to research for yourself, particularly when guided in a direction, ie link.

Allan of the jungle

luv2weld · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2011, 10:48:41 AM »

As stated by wpowokal, I also think you probably have a "swamp cooler".
I am very familiar with El Paso. Still have a house there.
If you are truly talking refrigerated air, it will cost even more than if it is an evaporative cooler.
If you have the room for them (and the money) I would recommend solar panels first. El Paso gets at least
330 days of sunshine a year. But you are still going to need a battery bank that's going to cost at least $10,000 US dollars.
When you are checking the wattage on your "air conditioner", also check the voltage. If it is a larger evap cooler it will be
220 volts. Guaranteed if it is refrigerated air, it's 220. That means you can't go to Harbor Freight (on Yarbrough) and get an inverter to
power the thing. So that's probably another 2,000 to 3,000 dollars for the inverter.
Liker Rover, I congratulate you on thinking and trying to find alternative ways to power things. Unfortunately, most systems that
are supposed to save money, end up costing you out the wazoo before you even get to plug anything in!!
The one thing we can say for sure is "You will never be able to make your own electricity as cheaply as the power company can."
I think you should start small and build up.
El Paso has a lot of power outages. So it would be nice to have lights and watch TV while the rest of the city sits in the dark!!
I know, because I have done it. Get one solar panel and a battery and that Harbor Freight inverter and you're in business.
But all your neighbors might want to come over and watch TV the next time the power goes out!!!!
Don't get discouraged. It just takes time and a lot of thinking and work to get where you want to go. And if
you have a lot of money to throw at the problem, you'll get there faster!!!

Ralph

kill_seth · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2011, 01:48:19 PM »

Thanks for the opinions guy, they really mean a lot.

One thing I might add is the motor from the wheelchair was placed into it to charge the batteries while it was in motion.
There were two 12V batteries connected to the charger and DC Motor. It also has the motor the controls the steering and movement of it.

The air conditioner is not refrigerated, just a "swamp cooler" like luv2weld stated.

Alright well I understand that it's not possible to do with the motor I have, so since it was free I might as well use it for something.
Understanding I have two 12V batteries, so that's 24V all together. I want to make electricity even if it just powers some lights.

Back on my original post I asked about the proper way to place things, can anyone tell me the right way.

I have an inverter, but not a charge controller which I need to get, but I don't know which one to get.

Wind Turbine --- DV Motor --- Charge Controller --- Batteries --- Inverter --- (what I'm powering)

birdhouse · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2011, 03:16:22 PM »

seth-
i'm still not convinced that motor is a good one to use for a wind genny. better to look for models with MUCH higher voltage on the stickers, and PM or SERVO are good things to look for.

the wind genny should be directly connected to the battery bank. then a charge controller also connects to the battery bank. when the wind genny is still putting juice into the batteries, but they are full, the charge controller realizes this and bleeds off exess juice into a dummy or "dump" load. the reason it is done this way, is you always want your wind genny doing work. if you simply disconnect it from the battery bank (when the batteries are full) with a solar type controller, and a large wind comes up, the unloaded wind genny may get up to truely scary RPM's and begin to self destruct.

one of the members ghurd here sells a inexpensive charge controller for wind, but you've gotta solder it up yourself, and find/make/build the dump load for it. otherwise the Tristar TS-40 and TS-60 are highly respected charge controllers for wind, though you still need to provide the dump load for those controllers.

also, just because you have 2 twelve volt batteries, doesn't mean you have a 24 volt bank. depending on how you wire it it could be used as 12 or 24 volt bank. your call.

adam

kill_seth · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2011, 03:23:48 PM »

That's very disappointing as I pretty much got the motor for free.
So if I read correctly, this motor won't even be able to charge the 2 batteries if the wind is blowing hard?

I think I have an old generator that a can possibly pull the motor out of, I might look into that.
I understand the charge controller now, thanks!

birdhouse · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2011, 03:48:27 PM »

seth-
not to burst your bubble again, but a generator motor is not going to be a good candidate either.

most typical motors are designed to run at thousands of rpm's to give a given voltage. many use brushes (bad) think of a your wheel chair motor running at thousands of rpm just to give you 24 volts.... SCARY if a prop was attached at those speeds!!

my 8.5' mill has a three phase motor rated for 140v and 2000 rpm. so, some VERY DIRTY math gives you 14v at 200 rpm. now that is reasonable. and because it is a servo, there are no brushes. IE- the magnets are already in the motor, so minus removing a built in brake, the motor is basically inadvertantly designed for a wind genny. these type of motors are not super prevalent. look on e-bay for servo's that have high voltage and low rpm. they will produce wild three phase output, but that is easily changed to DC with a rectifier. a user here fishmt79 (or97) has done a lot with servos. they are a good place to start if you're not the type to build a axial flux generator from scratch.

the hard truth is most motors you have or find are not going to be good ones. the more you educate yourself on what to look for the easier it will seem to find them.

adam

birdhouse · « **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2011, 03:55:36 PM »

just remembered- pacific scientific, allen bradley, and fanuc are good brands of servos to look for, though i'm sure there are many more!

wpowokal · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2011, 06:42:21 PM »

Quote

Back on my original post I asked about the proper way to place things, can anyone tell me the right way.

I have an inverter, but not a charge controller which I need to get, but I don't know which one to get.

Wind Turbine --- DV Motor --- Charge Controller --- Batteries --- Inverter --- (what I'm powering)

Have you read the artical associated with this pic that I linked to in my first post?

And try this......http://homepower.com/basics/wind/

And can you tell us what inverter you have? It realy helps if people lay all the facts out at the beginning instead of dribbling little snipets out over several posts.

And yes I am partaking of my anti grumpy potion.

Allan of the jungle

kill_seth · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2011, 08:51:59 PM »

Alright well I took off the other motor, and it has no specs on it.
This is what the motor has on it: CIM CM808-001 24 VDC and it's 2x as big as the first one with 3000RPM.

I'm not sure you most of you guys understand me, but I'm not trying to do anything big like power my house.
I'm doing this as a summer project while I has free time. I want to make a wind turbine even if I just power a light bulb.

ghurd · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2011, 01:50:15 AM »

The cost of buying a suitable motor is not as high of a percentage of the total cost as you may expect.

Starting with a good motor lowers the $/W (cost per power of what power comes out of the system).
It also increases the chances of a functional system.

Be very very skeptical of information only available from the seller.
Lots of useless treadmill/etc motors on ebay being sold as 'wonderful wind turbine motor'.

This will be helpful,
"Will this motor work as a generator ? "
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,143574.0.html

G-

birdhouse · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:22:51 AM »

seth-

i've been wanting to build a second smaller hobby type mill for grins. i just bought one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NACHI-TS4507N8036E200-AC-SERVO-MOTOR-/220345888913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item334da37091

i have no connection to seller, manufacturer, or any spammy intention.

i don't know if it will work, if it's quality, if it's three phase, or if it is even a good price. but i thought i'd give it a try. 3000rpm and 200volts are pretty good numbers. with dirty math, that's 180rpm to hit a 12 volt cut in. pretty good. thinking 3-5' blade diameter. maybe just two blades. then i could carve em out of one piece of wood.

i know you're not trying to power your whole house, but a motor with decent specs will be a lot more fun to play with and learn from than a motor that only trickle charges a battery in gale force winds. 180rpm is very obtainable with a small rotor, and even pvc blades might get you to battery charging without a lot of money time, or energy.

adam

kill_seth · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:14:39 AM »

bird,

that motor you linked me to, would I need to do anything to it before I could attach it to a windmill?

birdhouse · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:18:03 AM »

seth-
some servo's have a built in brake that is on, until electrically turned off. i remove them if this is the case. important part is to not let the magnets leave the stator, or they could lose magnetism in the process. this one may not have a brake... if not, it's ready to go more or less. you'd still need to figure a way to mount blades/tail to it, and mount it to a yaw bearing. do you weld? that seems the best/strongest way. the three phase output would also need to be rectified to sigle phase DC.

if you do order one, don't get angry with me if it doesn't work well. i ordered one on a hunch that it would work well, but have no idea until i get it on the bench for testing.

if you wanted to step up to something larger, i know for a fact that this one is near perfect for wind. a bit spendier, but also a 70lb motor. i know it has a brake, but could coach you on how to remove it. almost identical to the motor i used in my 8.5' mill. retail these are 3-4 grand.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fanuc-Servomotor-A06B-0357-B755-motor-rebuilt-Guarantee-/400109808321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d28672ac1

my diary on my fanuc mill:

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,145609.0.html

happy shopping!

adam

WindriderNM · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:27:17 PM »

I have have a few dc motors that i have used. 1 is from a treadmill It is a pm motor. It worked ok was able to get about 100w I got a treadmill given to me but the motor isn't pm. haven't done anything with it yet. another one from an auction pm also it worked ok. i just used blades i had laying around if i used the right sized blades i could get more power. all are about 1 to 1.5 hp 90 to 120 vdc. I have tried some that didn't work, a boat motor, motors from car radiators.

kill_seth · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:09:33 PM »

Alright, let me know how yours turns out.

I'm thinking about building my own solar panel as well.
Anyone know of any good places/people to buy some cells from?

Bruce S · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:51:13 AM »

Seth;
I would suggest starting with these posts.
Otzules has made and continues to make excellent and repeatable strides in DIY solar panels.
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,145005.0.html

Start at the beginning and read until you reach today's post on the 3rd series.
This should help you make an informed decision.
Bruce S

kill_seth · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »

Yes I was reading that exact thread, thanks.
I didn't seem to find what I was looking for.

You need to understand that I am not even a noobie yet.
I know how to weld and solder thinks so wind or solar was my intentions.

I would really just like to know how many solar cells it would take to power a 110 watt air conditioner.
I found these on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/36-3x6-Untabbed-Solar-Cells-Diy-Panel-Kit-w-Wire-Flux-/120708247969?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1ac5b1a1

They say each one puts out "Average Power (Watts): 1.75 Wp" so does that mean I will only need to buy about 100 of them?
Please let me know.

Bruce S · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2011, 10:02:30 AM »

Quote from: kill_seth on July 08, 2011, 10:48:18 PM

Yes I was reading that exact thread, thanks.
I didn't seem to find what I was looking for.

You need to understand that I am not even a noobie yet.
I know how to weld and solder thinks so wind or solar was my intentions.

I would really just like to know how many solar cells it would take to power a 110 watt air conditioner.
I found these on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/36-3x6-Untabbed-Solar-Cells-Diy-Panel-Kit-w-Wire-Flux-/120708247969?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1ac5b1a1

They say each one puts out "Average Power (Watts): 1.75 Wp" so does that mean I will only need to buy about 100 of them?
Please let me know.

Wp mean Watts at peak output. Can't see the particulars here at work, but most of those are down in the 3 to 6vdc range so you will need double that to make up for the 12Vdc side.
My biggest worry is that the enormous power a 110Vac air-conditioner will draw!! I have a very small unit in my house ( only 5000 watt unit) and the draw is more than any of my inverters will handle.
Might be a better idea to move other stuff off the house electricity like lights TVs computers and such to lower the house bill rather than build for the A/C unit.
You can use the smaller needs of lights and computer power to learn what the system will need and then decide if that truly is the way you want to go.
IF you truly want to have enough power to run this you will need 600 Amps at 12Vdc to be able to just get this unit to start, then you're going to need 200 Amps at 12Vdc to keep it running about every hours the compressor is running. Going to a higher 24Vdc will help, but still that 300Amps to start and 100Amps to keep it running.
When you find out what the voltage these panels are rated at, divide the Wp by the voltage. That will give you the Ip=current peak, divide the 600Amps by that number then multiply that by 2 you'll have the number of these panels.

Hope that helps.
Bruce S

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Author Topic: HomeMade Wind Turbine Help (Read 10484 times)