Author Topic: What produces more amperage...  (Read 2770 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

loadstone

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: 00
What produces more amperage...
« on: September 15, 2011, 07:58:34 PM »
Hello All,

First post I hope of many. This site was suggested by a friend and WOW am I impressed. I have looked for a site like this for years, thanks to the moderator and all who have made posts.

A quick question. I am working on a variable pitch (not sure what to call it) generator for wind power. In short the lighter the breeze, it will turn but not produce much current, the more wind the more pitch, the more stoke, the more amperage produced. It uses a double offset wheel. The question is.

What produces more amperage a magnet passing over a winding, or a magnet passing physically through a winding of the same size and turns.

Sorry if this is a repeat question. I have spent hours looking and reading here and am sure because of the size of this discussion board that I simply missed this thread.

Thanks

Jon H.

Watt

  • Guest
Re: What produces more amperage...
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 11:26:26 PM »
Can you explain the " Through the winding " suggestion.  Magnetic pole flux density and speed will net the greater potential for flow I would imagine but It's hard answer without knowing how the copper and magnet will be utilized. 

loadstone

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: 00
Re: What produces more amperage...
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2011, 12:27:25 AM »
Hello Watt and others thanks for considering this,

Yes this is a weird application. As copper prices start going through the roof I am sure every miliamp gain will be squeezed from the copper.

Let's assume that all things are equal motor speed, winding size, polarity (if that is possible in this example), rotor speed, mag flux, temp. The two examples: traditional mag passing with minimal air gap over a winding will produce so many amps. The second idea is a coil around a straw with the same number of turns and wire size and a magnet passing through the straw with the same air gap, speed and flux of the first example. Which will produce more amps, or miliamps. I would assume that you have better coil - flux contact with the mag passing through a straw but I am not sure that is critically important to amp output. Perhaps this will have to be worked out in the shop.

Thanks

Jon

SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5452
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: What produces more amperage...
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2011, 12:32:17 AM »
If you're asking what I think you're asking then you're really thinking outside of the box.

Nothing "creates" amperage.  Magnets and coils do create an electromotive force which can produce either voltage, current, or both.  The only way to make a current flow in a coil is to close the circuit of the wires, so in that sense you can directly create amperage that way, but it would be useless because you need a load for the coil to do any useful work.

The electromotive force is produced ONLY by changing the amount of magnetic flux that pases through the coil, which is why the magnets are usually moved past the coil.  By passing the coil, the flux from the magnet passes through for a moment, then an opposite polarity passes by.  The total change from flux of one polarity to the same amount of flux of the opposite polarity creates the EMF.  The rate of change also matters - twice as much flux flipping back and forth per second, or the same flux, flipping twice per second creates the same EMF, hence the same voltage.

Once you get the details of the wires, the loads, and know the amount of flux and the size of the coil relative to the size of the magnet, do you have a chance to know something about the current that will ultimately be produced.  This is stuff that was figured out 150 years ago by bright guys like JC Maxwell and Nikola Tesla.  The math can be heavy.  I like to scare people with it from time to time, but honestly I'm not good at it either.

Now, about the magnet going "through" the coil, as in passing straight through the opening in the middle of the loops of wire, then there is nearly no change in flux.  The flux is like a big arrow pointing out from the N pole of the magnet, bringing it closer or farther from the coil makes a small change, and going from close to inside the coil makes an even smaller change.  Passing through to the other side is a small change yet again. 

That's not to say that a magnet buried inside the coil won't do anything.   If your magnet were to flip pole over pole somehow, then the field would reverse as the magnet reversed, and you'd get a change in flux that way, and EMF.  In fact there's a rather easy way to build little moving wires like that, just in reverse.  They make fun conversation pieces (for people who aren't offended by nerdy experiments, that is).

Oh, and welcome to the board!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

loadstone

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Country: 00
Re: What produces more amperage...
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 12:44:26 AM »
Spar, Thanks, I recalled my science teacher taking a bar magnet as a child and passing it through a coil, and watched the ammeter needle moving. So you are saying it was a very sensitive meter because the set up is not effecient compared to a iron core coil. I will have to play with that one to make my setup work. Yes, I was thinking way outside of the box. Wait, sorry, then an offset wheel will still work the magnet does not have to pass through the center it can pass over the top if I place the magnets to right angles of the path. Ok, either way will work for me. I will explain more with pictures as I start the build.

Thanks

Jon H.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 12:57:52 AM by loadstone »