Author Topic: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger  (Read 4733 times)

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rossw

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Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« on: September 23, 2011, 02:54:30 AM »
Not quite sure where to post this - I think in here is probably best, but may not be seen by those who really need to see it....

As part of a commercial project I've been asked to assist with, I've been researching some specialist chips and more or less stumbled across a very interesting device.
I've had a look, and a think, and some rough preliminary plans, but want some feedback before I invest any more time or money in it.

How much interest would there be amongst the group for a small, low-power, multi-channel power logger?
The device would be a bit like a doc-watson on steroids.
 * Up to 8 channels simultaneously... so monitor several PV banks, wind turbine, hydro and inverter.
 * each channel can measure charge / discharge current
 * High resolution (16-bits or better)
 * monitor voltage as well, so can make real *power* measurements
 * Could have a built-in LCD to display stats in a stand-alone configuration
 * Has RS232 interface for logging
 * May have enough internal memory to log for a substantial period without needing a computer to download
 * Could have bluetooth connectivity to provide easy, wireless, isolated connection

Would people want it as a short-form (populated, tested) board-only, or in a case with connectors to just screw wires in to?

What (ballpark) price would people be prepared to pay for such a device? I'm thinking it should be achievable for under $100.

TomW

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 05:06:29 AM »
Let me preorder 2 sight unseen.

That is my level of interest here.

I will even alpha / beta test for free.

Tom

Steve Trumann

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 09:14:24 AM »
You have my interest. I have been researching data loggers for a month or so now. I have now problem building one in kit form. I just hate ordering parts from every where to build one from scratch. Doc Watson on steroids sounds good to me. The $100.00 range sound good too.
Steve Trumann

Bruce S

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 09:54:49 AM »
Ditto on the pre-order for 1 with a reserve for two more.
Will you be doing a write up as this progresses?

Bruce S
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ghurd

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 11:28:27 AM »
Be careful when ignoring the cost of silly things.
Most of my mistakes in calculating costs start with "It's just a ..."
It's just a plastic box ($12 for something that size?).
It's just a On/Off switch ($1).
It's just a dozen $2 connectors/ports/jacks.
It's just a few feet of wire (which I end up buying at the last minute at the auto parts store for $0.50 a foot for #18).
It's just a matter of making a dozen holes in a plastic box (how long could that possibly take?).

Maybe you knew that.
I learned it, and am still learning it, the hard way.   :-[
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www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

birdhouse

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 03:12:57 PM »
ross-
that sounds too good to be true!  i'd love to be on the pre-order list!  even if it is more than $100 (which i find hard for you to compensate your time even slightly for that price). 

i have zero logging/metering of any sort at the moment, so rather than buying a bunch off small pieces and parts, your logger could do it all!

thanks!
adam

DanG

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 03:47:09 PM »
I'm in... if it comes with a free calender.

fabricator

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 05:36:02 PM »
Count me in for two, I can solder and populate a board, but the time savings of plug and play would be really nice, paying for quality is not a problem for me.
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SparWeb

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 11:58:45 AM »
Ross,

You are describing what I want to build on an Arduino board over the winter!
Except you probably could do it 100x better and take less time than me.

Some ideas to throw into the mix:

Onboard clock (kind of goes without saying)

Temp records.  Lots of dataloggers have the typical Dallas sensor packed with the kit anyway.  Ambient temperature measurements are useful for me since it goes from +30 to -40C where I live, this affects many things, from battery capacity, calibration of the shunt, to air density (hence turbine Cp).  If you are really adept at this stuff, you can put multiple temp sensors on one bus and just read them sequentially from one input channel.

If you were to look at what the Backshed logger kit, what you get is an interface that is intended to do all the calculations for you inside the logger.  That's fine if you only want to use the datalogger for only one wind turbine and absolutely nothing else.  If you are seriously going to create a datalogger, then you might want to consider how the I/O goes from the box to the computer, and whether the majority of your users want a GUI window on the computer or just a stream of data into files on the hard drive.  The desire for an LCD would send you in the direction of "all calculations on board", so bear in mind that maybe the LCD should get a simplified data set, and the comprehensive set is just raw in a separate file.  Something to keep down the number processing, which takes away from the actual data collecting business.

You could store all data to a Flash card.  Or provide the option.  Some users may not want/need a continuous RS232 link.  The flash card may be preferrable to an EEPROM.

Feel free to skip the ideas that make your project more complex than necessary.  If the core data collection, calibration, and sampling rates are good, then hobbyists like us and customize the user end to our liking.

You're in Australia right?  Then you've heard of the Maximite, right? 

Darn, I'm about 7th in line for the pre-orders.  Put me down, too!  Ghurd can vouch that I am good for beta-testing, too.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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rossw

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2011, 05:24:37 PM »
Onboard clock (kind of goes without saying)

Yes, it has an RTC already.

Actually, it has rather a lot of things I didn't specifically mention. It's a specialty industrial VLSI block that I suspect most people wouldn't even get to see. I only "stumbled" on it while doing design job for someone else.

Quote
Temp records.  Lots of dataloggers have the typical Dallas sensor packed with the kit anyway.  Ambient temperature measurements are useful for me since it goes from +30 to -40C where I live, this affects many things, from battery capacity, calibration of the shunt, to air density (hence turbine Cp).  If you are really adept at this stuff, you can put multiple temp sensors on one bus and just read them sequentially from one input channel.

It has a temperature sensor also, but I intend adding at least one external sensor. I hadn't said anything because until I get my hands on some, I'm not sure how much of my wish-list I will be able to implement. I *HOPE* that it will be easy enough to code multidrop sensors, in which case I'll provide for several DS18B20's similar to what I did with one of my other projects: http://logging.net.au/

Quote
If you were to look at what the Backshed logger kit, what you get is an interface that is intended to do all the calculations for you inside the logger.  That's fine if you only want to use the datalogger for only one wind turbine and absolutely nothing else.  If you are seriously going to create a datalogger, then you might want to consider how the I/O goes from the box to the computer, and whether the majority of your users want a GUI window on the computer or just a stream of data into files on the hard drive.  The desire for an LCD would send you in the direction of "all calculations on board", so bear in mind that maybe the LCD should get a simplified data set, and the comprehensive set is just raw in a separate file.  Something to keep down the number processing, which takes away from the actual data collecting business.

Yes, it has 40-odd IO pins to drive LCD panels directly, although I'd probably choose a slightly more expensive solution and use a 2x20 or 4x20 character display, just because it's so much more flexible. The device has a core engine that does all the A/D work (did I mention it's a 21 or 22 bit ADC? To put that in perspective, it means I could have a 0-250V input scale and still read down to millivolts - without *ANY* changes in components or need for user configuration), and a seperate (improved) 8051 MPU for the "application", so it's got plenty of grunt to process all those things onboard.

Quote
You could store all data to a Flash card.  Or provide the option.  Some users may not want/need a continuous RS232 link.  The flash card may be preferrable to an EEPROM.

Yes, I've been wondering if I use an SD card, or a USB thumbdrive. Again, I'll see what I can manage. RS232 or Bluetooth have some advantages, but so does local storage. I tend to far prefer real-time logging than collect it once a week type dumps, but I suppose it depends on what you're using it for.

Quote
Feel free to skip the ideas that make your project more complex than necessary.  If the core data collection, calibration, and sampling rates are good, then hobbyists like us and customize the user end to our liking.

None of your ideas are bad - and all of them (and a bunch of others) are already in my plans. I'm just itching to get my first units here to start playing with. I'm going to be bitterly disappointed if the reality isn't what's promised in the spec sheets.

Quote
You're in Australia right?  Then you've heard of the Maximite, right? 

Yes, well aware of it. It's a nice novelty, but at this point in its development, I sure wouldn't want to rely on it. The device I'm talking about is a fair dinkum, solid and appropriately designed industrial core, with voltage regulation, battery switching, power condition (brownout) detection, oscillator/PLL/RTC, XRAM etc all designed for industrial temperature ranges, power supply conditions, EMI/RFI and all the compliance stuff built in.

Quote
Darn, I'm about 7th in line for the pre-orders.  Put me down, too!  Ghurd can vouch that I am good for beta-testing, too.

Thats just 7-th in line in this forum - there's a bunch more in IRC!

Rover

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2011, 05:32:48 PM »
Like Sparweb, I like the unit Ross

I have my own currently home built, though the 2nd iteration is in partial build. (I have no desire to market what I am building, to purpose built)

Think about adding an rf transmitter ... I didn's see it in the specs, might have missed it,  coupled with a pc  rf receiver (rs232 is fine and platform independent) .

Be an added cost item , but adds the benifit of offloading storage and number crunching to a household pc that might already be on 24/7 anyway.




 

Rover
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rossw

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2011, 05:40:32 PM »
Think about adding an rf transmitter ... I didn's see it in the specs, might have missed it

"Bluetooth" - 10m (optionally 100m) range, 2.4GHz - mentioned above and in IRC.

zvizdic

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2011, 06:29:20 PM »
I'm 8-th!

SparWeb

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 06:34:52 PM »
Quote
Actually, it has rather a lot of things I didn't specifically mention. It's a specialty industrial VLSI block that I suspect most people wouldn't even get to see. I only "stumbled" on it while doing design job for someone else.

Wow now I'm embarassed to have even mentioned the Maximite!  The datasheet must read like an encyclopedia.

You have also totally undermined my initiative on my Arduino logger.  I think the Arduino A/D is only about 10-bits, so this thing you pulled out of the alien spaceship will put to shame anything I can make.  I'm gonna have to build something else... like an oztules solar panel or something.  Harrumph.

You've got a lot of guys wiping drool off their keyboards, now.

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

rossw

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 06:55:53 PM »
The datasheet must read like an encyclopedia.

The "overview" is only 26 pages.

Quote
You've got a lot of guys wiping drool off their keyboards, now.

Yeah, and the bits STILL haven't arrived, damnit!!

SparWeb

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 03:48:19 PM »
Anything yet?

jittering eagerly
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

rossw

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2011, 05:18:40 PM »
Anything yet?
jittering eagerly

Getting frustrated, my order appears to have been either lost in transit, or customs are trying to work out what it is.
If I don't hear something soon, I'm going to order another lot and keep my fingers crossed.

admin

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2011, 01:07:28 PM »
Very interested in that logger here....
ADMIN

Mary B

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Re: Multichannel power monitor/display/logger
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 01:43:18 PM »
Add me to the list.