Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.

[fabricator]

But it's being personally constructed by the CEO!

[tecker]

Using smaller DC or auto alts is doable but you have to think 6 volt batteries and a couple of installations Two masts tWo units and serial setups . It's ok really it's what I went to off the bat for several reasons not the least of which is the no wind until there's violent wind . There's wind at 70 feet fairly regularly; I'm working to get up there now but I get by with multiple units and mixed technology installs .

[ChrisOlson]

I know a guy who had the blue version of the red thing.

This made me chuckle.  Does anybody build a green one?  Or black.  Everybody knows that if you paint it black it makes WAAY more power.   
--
Chris

[fabricator]

I got a couple regular old silver ones. course they wern't built by the CEO of Delco.

[tanner0441]

Hi

That's a fallacy Chris, I have a black one under my bench, I took the diodes out and brought the six wires out, no matter how you connect it your still looking at over 2000 shaft RPM to do any thing worth mentioning. So it lives under my bench, and being black you can't see it in the darkness...... Just how I like it.

Yanmar paint theirs silver, Volvo paint them blue, Caterpillar paint great big ones white (or yellow), but the all have tiny little pulleys on compared to the size of the crank pulley, which says it all, oh Mercruiser paint them black, a thick coat of shiny black, all that does is make them run hot.

Brian

[midwoud1]

The Red Delco needs high Rpm.
Bigger blades ( 2400 mm diam ) and gear up with sprockets and chain ( 1:4 ).
Wish we had BBQ and workshop with all posters at Steadfast.
I bring Heineken Beer .
Cheers.
- Frans -

[tecker]

Let's see Black Red Blue is 208 and Yelow pilea piler is diesel with a cat so if the CEo of Delco is in the country and not building low tech crush able gas junk that has no resale with someone in the Poconos trying to fade  .  We could con a Juck man out of the Two Delcos he has at he bottom of a pile . Slap a rebuild kit in and a couple of three Doughnut mags  and make enough juice to keep a 1500 amp hrs up with some solar and  8 inch pvc blades I might get a couple of jobs next week ,  of witch I have one I really need 5 total though , to keep the mods of other junk I have in my " work " with beer in hand shop . 
 A worthwhile goal as I see it   
 oh yeah And coffee , snacks , and concrete  and no that's not what you get after the snacks 

[Boss]

Hadn't checked in for a while, nice to see all the changes here, plus some things are the same too. Asparagus juice, lol
Brian 

[ghurd]

I know a guy who had the blue version of the red thing.

This made me chuckle.  Does anybody build a green one?  Or black.  Everybody knows that if you paint it black it makes WAAY more power.   
--
Chris

I know it is a running joke in some circles that wind stuff should NEVER be painted blew.
And, FYI, the color 'blew' is another running joke in some circles.
Myself, FYI, I think overall output would be greatest if everything were chrome plated, with gold lightning bolt emblems, but they don't believe me.

You have NO idea how Expensive it is to get a mini-ECM chrome plated with gold laminated lightning bolts.
With 25.5" dia blades, it makes an honest 1.7A in galvanized.
G-

[Steadfast]

The Red Delco needs high Rpm.
Bigger blades ( 2400 mm diam ) and gear up with sprockets and chain ( 1:4 ).
Wish we had BBQ and workshop with all posters at Steadfast.
I bring Heineken Beer .
Cheers.
- Frans -

HEY... Im all FOR a "Pig Picken/workshop" at my place...
as long as I end up with a kick butt turbine in the end I am ALL for it!

[Steadfast]

I know a guy who had the blue version of the red thing.

This made me chuckle.  Does anybody build a green one?  Or black.  Everybody knows that if you paint it black it makes WAAY more power.   
--
Chris

I know it is a running joke in some circles that wind stuff should NEVER be painted blew.
And, FYI, the color 'blew' is another running joke in some circles.
Myself, FYI, I think overall output would be greatest if everything were chrome plated, with gold lightning bolt emblems, but they don't believe me.

You have NO idea how Expensive it is to get a mini-ECM chrome plated with gold laminated lightning bolts.
With 25.5" dia blades, it makes an honest 1.7A in galvanized.
G-

Ok...  Ya buch of smart allic, chuckle-head, goofballs!
Just for ALL that light hearted ribbing... Just for you....
I think I WILL go out and buy some glow-in-the-dark "puffy" Lightning Bolt stickers to "be-dazzle" my RED PMA when it comes in!   

and when I shoot a video in the end:
I will make sure to say smart allic things like "look at her spin!" and "MMMM-Boy, shes really Crankin Now!" And, I will make sure to add zero hard data when I do shoot it..

Take THAT!
Ha ha!

(Then, I will shoot another one - With Data to see -for better or worse- what is really going on.)

[Steadfast]

Well, I spoke with Tony at Hurricane for over an hour…

He agreed with you guys that there is A LOT of “Chinese PMA Crap” and scammers out there, (Whom, I also believe just happen to make blue and black PMAs) and that he too has had some quality control problems along the way, which has lumpped him in with some of those guys, but that he is up to something new and different now with his product line that Hugh Piggot recognises as ligitimate innovation.

Tony also said that in the past he too has been burned by subletting out some of the work to a group of guys which did not meet his standards and produced some products that needed to be refunded. This fact combined with a tornado that recently wiped them out, has lead him to have to move his entire operation back to Virginia, where he has much more control of his product quality.

He also said that because of the challenge set before him by this string, and the fact I am documenting everything, has inspired him into trying out some of his new ideas that should open up a much more improved low wind product line and possible advertising opportunity for him when I finally shoot the video results of my project...

Thus, the delay I have been experiencing in receiving my PMA, is now due to the fact that he has just ordered some custom shaped, MUCH more powerful  “elliptical” Magnets, he wishes to use in instead of the old design, in making my now “Experimental Low Wind PMA”.

In fact, He is coming down to the Raliegh/Durham area next week to talk to an new company with some sort of “ground breaking Magnet Innovations” that he wishes to use to build a whole new design for a massive double PMA that flies in a Higher wind environment, and should have an efficiency which has yet to have been seen on the PMA market so far.  He claims it will “blow away” the even some of the bigger disc generators…  (Which is quite a claim)

At this point in our conversation is when his Super-techie side came out full blast and he began excitedly speaking “Technical PMA Greek” to me about the output potentials of his new larger PMA design. (I was like ..."huh?") 

I believe in inovation, experimintation, patience and second chances.
(Heck, even Edison failed several thousand times making the light bulb)

Bottom line,
is that since Tony is coming down here to NC, we are going to “Do Lunch” and he is going to hand deliver my “experimental PMA” to me. He also will bring down some Larger Falcon type blades (7ft span) for me to test out along with my (5ft span) blades to see which responds better in the lower winds and also generates more torque power in my area.

Very exciting stuff…

All I know is that, if I am patient, I should have a very interesting final story to tell here and Hopefully a much more powerful wind turbine than I imagined before I set out on this whole journey with my little ametec motor… 

It should be fun!
Of course, I will keep you guys posted....AS I GO!

[ChrisOlson]

And, I will make sure to add zero hard data when I do shoot it..

The big question is, are you going to use the 12 gauge with Double Awt Buck?  Or the 460 Weatherby Mag with a hollow point?  If you use the 12 gauge with #4 or something, make sure to screw in a full choke so it keeps a nice tight pattern at 30 feet.

And yes, we would DEFINITELY like to see the results when you shoot it.  I'm pretty sure that one will get more views on YouTube than the guy that shot his daughter's laptop with a .45 ACP   
--
Chris

[Steadfast]

ha ha ha...

Buck shot would do the trick alright! 

But... I am more of a 30-30 man.
I also like Glock... 

[CraigM]

Steadfast,

I've been following your journey down this road from day one and you're right, "It should be fun!" Reserve a healthy degree of skepticism though, some of the conversation you described sounds like a slick sales pitch.

I've found this site to be a good rule of thumb to detect exaggerated claims.
http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/klemen/Perfect_Turbine.htm

For example, a 5 foot diameter prop has a swept area of 19.625 feet. Using the Power Curve table a Good Turbine will produce 34 watts in a 10 mph wind (19.625 x 1.75). A 7 foot diameter prop has a swept area of 38.465 feet and a Good Turbine will produce 67 watts in a 10 mph wind (38.465 x 1.75).

At the Betz limit in a 10 mph wind a 5 foot prop would yield 58 watts and a 7 foot prop would yield 113 watts.

Using this information you can determine who's legitimate and who's trying to sell you asparagus juice as a cure all.

I still have a long way to go on the path.

Have fun,
CM

[birdhouse]

i find the recent changes a little bit odd. 

you ordered a PMA from a company that makes "the best 11lb wind generator out there".  i mean, the open volt, and shorted amp charts make it very obvious that these are 2+KW gens...   

then the company owner realizes he's in the public view, via this forum.  now, he's redesigning his already "perfect" product??  new magnets, different windings??   what makes you think the first prototype of this new design is going to be worth its weight in scrap? 

i think he's nervous of public humiliation, and now scrambling to redesign to minimize the humiliation, and i've got doubts that that will work. 

hopefully we'll all get proven right, wrong, or sideways, as i'm ready to see results!

adam

[Steadfast]

Hey, I am ready to see results far more than you guys are...

After all It was My cash that Paid for it all.
And my time which was spent constructing it.
It is my shell of a turbine that is waiting for its Heartbeat before it can fly.
And, it is MY WIFE to whom I am answering questions about the delay on this thing.

I am doing what I can to be patient and optimistic here...

Sure, I guess I could just thow on my Ametec, strap on my blades, and fly it...
But we all know it would just end up really TALL lawn art awaiting for a tornado to pass by just to cut in...

I think Tony is going to do Right by me, and in the process improve his company's image a lot.
Soooo, I am waiting....

BTW CraigM:
I am seriously muling over getting those 7ft swept area blades...

[Bruce S]

Steadfast;
FWIW, here's my opinion.
IF he's going to go the lengths to bring down a redesign and meet face-to-face then that already gets a (+) vote from me. Heck if I weren't driving over the Il to pickup 1/2 piggy for the freezer, I'd be 1/2 tempted to drive over to see it myself.
NC has more than one personal friend from old ARMY days and Piedmont,SC ain't that far away to go visit a long time retired Marine bud I haven't seen since 1998.
So I'll step back, work on trying to get some TUIT's done at home while waiting for your bird to arrive and fly.
While you're waiting  how's the Solar and batteries doing?
best of luck
Bruce S

[ChrisOlson]

Sure, I guess I could just thow on my Ametec, strap on my blades, and fly it...
But we all know it would just end up really TALL lawn art awaiting for a tornado to pass by just to cut in...

Steadfast - you need to get over the rpm phobia.  If you're going to make power with a small wind turbine it needs to spin.  And I mean spin so the blades are a blur at 250-300 rpm at cut-in.  You can't get any power with slow turning blades in that small of a swept area.

It's kind of like, "Build it Ray, and they will come".  You need to have faith that it doesn't take a tornado to make properly designed turbine blades spin at high tip speed ratios.  I'm not saying you have properly designed blades.  But if they don't spin at 300 rpm unloaded in a 6 mph breeze @ 5 feet in diameter then you need different blades and no generator is going to fix it if they don't.

RPM's baby.  It's your friend with small wind power.
--
Chris

[sean_ork]

would it be impolite of me to use my first post to mention that aluminium blades have a very short life ?

they flex, which work hardens the material, causing cracks, followed by total failure ......

regards,

Sean
(from windy Orkney)

[niall2]

...not impolite at all and informative Sean ....

i dont think folded thin plate makes a " good " wind turbine blade .....

the stress dosent seem evenly distrubited across the blade somehow ...

a bit like pvc blades ...small might spin up ok (and last )....but stretching the diameter a bit much might bring on problems very fast ...

[fabricator]

And that was posted several pages back Experimental = prototype = large chance of unsatisfactory results, to have any chance at all you need to scrap those phoney baloney blades and order a wincharger style set up from royal wind and solar, two blades = high rpms = some possible real power.

[JW]

He also said that because of the challenge set before him by this string, and the fact I am documenting everything, has inspired him into trying out some of his new ideas that should open up a much more improved low wind product line and possible advertising opportunity for him when I finally shoot the video results of my project...

There is no exclusive club, if a turbine meets the test of time, great, if there is also something to learn from before that, also great.

I think we all here should strive to be fair as possible.
What im saying is- let this guy have a fair shot at "his own" post/topic. Im sure the results will be honest. If he needs more time to work with the OEM let him have that extra time.

[niall2]

" There is no exclusive club, if a turbine meets the test of time, great "

i thought the car alt thing had been done to death years ago by people who tried it and advised others not to go that route .....

are we back at square one with a car alt mod and bits of alumium blades ?

[fabricator]

That's exactly what we have been trying to tell him.

[JW]

Ok, so lets say the arrangement turns out to be  "lower output range"

Would someone please tell me the "ideal model" with what to compare this turbines expected energy in watts kwh etc.

Uknow, this could be an example of how the lower output guys are trying to emerge in a rural zoning area.

Im not to keen on swept area and all that benz law stuff, I have not seen one instance that low 'power' would not be the result, of this type of turbine project, but in the end it will produce some power- I have not seen this disputed. Just not ideal from what im gathering.

[CraigM]

I am seriously muling over getting those 7ft swept area blades...

Steadfast, see if your guy Tony will throw in the 7ft blades for you. All else being equal as long as they're matched to the output of the PMA you'll gain a few watts.

We're pulling for ya, Craig

[Steadfast]

would it be impolite of me to use my first post to mention that aluminium blades have a very short life ?

they flex, which work hardens the material, causing cracks, followed by total failure ......

regards,

Sean
(from windy Orkney)

And you would be right IF the blades where made out of standard aluminum.
However, the falcon blade is made out of 10 gauge aircraft aluminum which is designed to flex and withstand long term wind vibration. That is why they make airplains out of it.

[sean_ork]

would it be impolite of me to use my first post to mention that aluminium blades have a very short life ?

they flex, which work hardens the material, causing cracks, followed by total failure ......

regards,

Sean
(from windy Orkney)

And you would be right IF the blades where made out of standard aluminum.
However, the falcon blade is made out of 10 gauge aircraft aluminum which is designed to flex and withstand long term wind vibration. That is why they make airplains out of it.

I'll post up some images shortly showing my pile of very dead blades, some are Falcons, all were made out of ''aircraft grade'' ali - all failed due to stress fractures

the term aircraft grade is used in this context to give the purchaser the impression that the material is of a higher quality, or is stronger, or has some other mechanical attributes that makes it suitable for wind turbine blades, the reality is that the term is applied ''correctly'' to aluminum that is used within a more rigorous environment therefore there is some degree of manufacturing traceability and quality control

ask the supplier what grade it is, ask them for a copy of the production certificates, or for the batch number from the rolling mill ....... perhaps spend a few minutes of your time reading up on what aircraft grade really means, you might find yourself looking up your local timber supplier shortly afterwards

I've long been a watcher of this forum and have been building mills for a long long time - the only reason I joined was to add my voice to those many others here that are trying hard to point you in a direction that will result in success and NOT result in you wasting your time and money.

[tanner0441]

Hi

When they build a plane the air frame and skin have a finite design life which is defined at the time of construction. A lot of people on here will not remember the Commet air craft, just the action of going up and down caused the skin to flex enough to crack and blow the windows out.  Concord was withdrawn from service because the aircraft had reached its design life. Aircraft grade aluminium will have fewer contaminants in it but if it was classed as an engineering metal then you wouldn't have any need for titanium and some of the more obscure metals used in aircraft engines.

I have tried automotive alternators, it didn't do what I expected of it. I have tried plastic blades, all though they spun up easily, they failed.... Catastrophically with bits of blade scattered over a large area.

All I will say is: Get your alternator, put it on the tower, take accurate readings over a few months, and publish them honestly on here. If the supplier is confident of his product get him to print a set of expected figures for your site, and supply it on sale or return. Perhaps use your site as a test bed and lend you test equipment.

If you don't have anything to measure wind speed accurately get something. For testing get something which has a clear display and post photographs of the readings. Most of the comments I have read on here are, have been by people who have had the frustrations of trying things which didn't work. I don't know if anything on the old board is still about, you could read some of the criticisms aimed at me, some quite scathing, but eventually I listened and learned.

Brian

[Steadfast]

Ok, I decided to take your advice on the cables.  An ounce of prevention… right?

 I bought 150ft of 5/16 cable, all the accessories to make the cable functional and a 1000 pound wench. (To hand crank up and down my pole whenever we get Bad storm weather forecasts)

I plan to attach the wench to a 6ft long, steel “H” girder, sunk and concreted into the ground 5ft down. This will be my first anchor.  I plan to use my trees for the other two anchors for the other two cables.  I plan to anchor directly into, or around, the tree trunks 6ft off the ground.

Remember:
I live in a class 1 wind region, Im only 30 ft up, I have pipe inside of pipe, and I will only be flying a 7ft span MAX.

Here again is my pole:

[CraigM]

I have to agree with sean_ork. The term “Aircraft grade” aluminum has little to do with the properties or strength of the material and more to do with the regulation and compliance requirements of the aerospace industry. When you see the term “aircraft grade” thrown around it's more often than not used as a sales tool to make the buyer feel they're getting something special. I work at a machine shop and we make components for the aerospace industry so I deal with this type of thing every day and it's all about regulation and traceability.

While I have no experience with aluminum turbine blades as sean_ork does it would appear aluminum sheet is used for ease of manufacturing. Aluminum blades makes mass production a simple and inexpensive solution to increase profit margins.

Regards, CM

[sean_ork]

ali blades are great toys - you might see a few 100 watts out of one, during a gale for not very long - and it's great fun watching the amps flow, listening to the 700rpm howl and seeing the dump finally kick in ..........

but sooner rather than later the ammeter will stay on it's stop, the blades having gone to meet their maker - destined to fly no more - if you never get a gale you might see an average of 20 watts - that'll keep some low powered outside lights running and will help the ali blades last longer

i hope you have fun learning from your mistakes and I really hope you or your family don't get hurt