Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it.

[Steadfast]

so maybe I am wrong.... 

This is on Him, AND APPARENTLY ON ME TOO...
If it doesn't work...it doesn't work...
Ill just return it...and get a refund... and reap the domestic whirlwind! 

[Bruce S]

DUDE!!!! ya know those Honey do lists come 1st right!?
How's ChrisO put it? BTDT!!
We can't help you with domestic bliss. Sorry you're on your own with that one

I wouldn't put it that YOU failed, (Spin doctor hanging up sign) but that you have learned a great deal more.
Failure comes when you completely just give up and chuck the whole thing down into the gutter. Learning from what did/didn't work is just  that.
And yes I took psych 101 and thought after passing the class w/o going bonkers myself the Nietzsche, was whacked out and a perv!!

When are you two due to meet this time?

[JW]

No, you must see this from her point of view...
The issue is about the sheer number of weekends and days off I have blown building it so far...
not to mention the CASH to pay to do it right! Which naively was estimated at 7 times less than what I imagined it would be in the beginning.

HA!!!!!!!!!!

I went thru this EXACT SAME THING when we were merging the forum over the last time...

The first thing you do is go out buy some flowers, then spend some money on her (take her out to dinner) then the most important thing, sex,sex and more sex.

After about 4 time's or so she will let up. But then you need to come up with a schedule to keep her happy. I watched my steam engine development go straght down the tubes after I was married about 6 years ago. DO WHAT YOU CAN WITH WHAT YOU HAVE!!!!   

JW

http://flashsteam.com/Corn_Burners.htm

[Steadfast]

This is my latest modified control panel...

Here are my 3 sets of blades...
My shiny falcon five foot span.
My fiberglass 7 ft span.
and the black ones where free.

The tape measure is set at 5ft.


44 inch blade...7 ft span...

[fabricator]

I don't know exactly what you got goin there but normally the red wire on the load side is not used in this type of setup.

[JW]

Fabricator;

Are we talking about the red arrow or the blue arrow-




JW

[fabricator]

No, the red wire on the load (top right corner) of the DocWatson.

[JW]

At the upper right I only see the shadow of the white wire[blue arrow]. I remember from the 3 wire ribbon cable (red,white,black) you recommended only using the white and black wires.




JW

[Steadfast]

I find it interesting the kinds of things that you guys focus on.... and here I thought you guys wanted to talk about my blades....

That load red line ties into the bottom of the 50 amp fuse... which also is tied directly to the pos teminal of my battery. The black is attached to the battery net terminal. Because the battery is my load and the solar is my source of charge...

[ChrisOlson]

Steadfast - can you explain to me why you (or this Tony) are trying to get cut-in voltage at 100 rpm?

Do you understand what Tip Speed Ratio (TSR) is?

This is a photo of me standing by one of my turbines:


You see how big that turbine is?  That thing cuts in at 118 rpm @ 6 mph wind speed.  The blade tips are traveling over 8.5 times faster than the wind speed when it cuts in.  That's Tip Speed Ratio - how fast the blade tips are traveling in relation to the wind speed.  It is directly correlated to how much power you can extract from the wind that is flowing thru the rotor's swept area.

Fast rotors are more efficient and capture more power.  Slow rotors are terribly inefficient and capture less power.  Your little blades at 100 rpm at 6 mph wind speed would be running at TSR 2.9.  Running that slow they will make zero power - barely enough to overcome bearing friction.

Do you or your buddy Tony not get this?  You say you have poor wind conditions, and we all know you got a short tower.  To have a snowball's chance of making usable power with your turbine it needs to spin at 8+ TSR at cut-in.  TSR 8 is 270 rpm for a 5 foot rotor.

It is quite frustrating to see a newbie to wind power, who is enthused about it, to get brainwashed into doing it all backwards by the likes of some clueless eBay seller who doesn't even know that kWh is what counts and gets the work done.
--
Chris

[Valalvax]

Wait... what's the difference in 100 RPM with a 5 foot blade and 100 RPM with a 7 foot blade?

[Watt]

Wait... what's the difference in 100 RPM with a 5 foot blade and 100 RPM with a 7 foot blade?

A 5 footer will have less magnet and copper than a 7 footer ( or should ).  7 footer blade tips are moving at 36.6ft/sec and the 5 footer blade tips are moving at 26.2ft/sec. 

[Valalvax]

Wait... what's the difference in 100 RPM with a 5 foot blade and 100 RPM with a 7 foot blade?

A 5 footer will have less magnet and copper than a 7 footer ( or should ).  7 footer blade tips are moving at 36.6ft/sec and the 5 footer blade tips are moving at 26.2ft/sec.

Oh, right, should have realized that

[Steadfast]

Do you understand what Tip Speed Ratio (TSR) is?
-Chris

Nope... I don't...
....but I do NOW...   

You see how big that turbine is?  That thing cuts in at 118 rpm @ 6 mph wind speed.  The blade tips are traveling over 8.5 times faster than the wind speed when it cuts in.  That's Tip Speed Ratio - how fast the blade tips are traveling in relation to the wind speed.  It is directly correlated to how much power you can extract from the wind that is flowing thru the rotor's swept area.

Fast rotors are more efficient and capture more power.  Slow rotors are terribly inefficient and capture less power.  Your little blades at 100 rpm at 6 mph wind speed would be running at TSR 2.9.  Running that slow they will make zero power - barely enough to overcome bearing friction.

Do you or your buddy Tony not get this?  You say you have poor wind conditions, and we all know you got a short tower.  To have a snowball's chance of making usable power with your turbine it needs to spin at 8+ TSR at cut-in.  TSR 8 is 270 rpm for a 5 foot rotor.
--
Chris

Well, alrighty than.... I got that... an excellent explanation...Bravo!

I can always paint the 7 foot span blades bronze and red to look as good as my 5ft span falcons do... and I can always try them both out for one month each... on the experimental PMA... and report back the results...
Is there anything I need to do to strengthen my fiberglass blades?


My question is will my rig handle those longer blades...?
I suspect the answer is yes, because I live in a class 1 area...
Here is my rig to scale:


Here is my rig in reality:


.
I have my Dr. Wattson installed for all the electric flow type data...
Soooo, where can I find a good/cheap laser digital tachometer with a 60 ft range?
.

[tecker]

Bicycle speedometer

[tanner0441]

Hi

Steadfast, have you read back through your post from the beginning, because some of the points being raised now have been covered earlier, and some of the points raised earlier which you didn't understand it is now reasonable to assume you now do.

You have three sets of blades but nothing to bolt them to, could you possibly get hold of a  suitable motor to put on your pole and see how the blades perform? Pity your not in the UK I have several motors and a modified car alternator you could have. Perhaps someone within reach of you could loan you something.

As for blade RPM, a cycle speedo, there are several articles on here how to set them up, or even a small magnet on one of the blades near the hub and a read switch on a bracket from the side of the generator and simply use a counter to check the speed over a defined time.

Here's hoping your alternator comes soon so you can get it in the air and start taking real readings. Mind you if sods law is the same in the US as it is in the UK you will get at least three weeks of low mist and no wind.

Brian.

[Steadfast]

I am considering buying these...

How are my shopping skills?
Or
should I look at something better, somewhere else?

La Crosse Technology WS-1910TWC-IT Wireless Professional Station with Wind, Dew Point, Temperature, Humidity ...  $56.50


Neiko 20713A Professional Digital Laser Photo Non-Contact Tachometer with Accuracy 99,999 RPM Measurement ...  $25.06

As for blade RPM, a cycle speedo, there are several articles on here how to set them up, or even a small magnet on one of the blades near the hub and a read switch on a bracket from the side of the generator and simply use a counter to check the speed over a defined time.

I like this idea MUCH better than the hand held Tachometer above... But which brand of Wireless Bicycle Speedometer transmits a display in RPMs...

where can I find those articles?

[tanner0441]

Hi

I bought one of those tachos to check my pillar drill, it is very good but it is a near contact device and needs subdued light for reliability. It is quite robust, playing on my motor home engine the fan took it out of my hand, after counting my fingers I picked it up and it wasn't even scratched. I bought mine direct from China it was about £25 GBP and took 10 days to arrive.

My weather station is a Davis WH1080 wireless to a desktop unit and USB to my PC running Cumulus.  Cumulus is a free download, the station came with Easy Weather, which is OK but the PC display is chunky and basic. It does wind speed and direction, rain, temp and barometric pressure, you can also get a sunshine monitor.

Brian

[Steadfast]

I am at a bicycle shop as we speak... I am buying a cat eye strada cadence wired bicycle computer on sale for $39...

How did I do...?   

[birdhouse]

i'm sure that bike speedo will work fine.  i prefered the cheapie 11 dollar unit, but maybe yours will last longer!  then mount the display someplace on the turbine where you can read it with binoculars!  then after a month, you can use the distance function to tell how many total revoltions you got in a month. 

once you know the circumfrance  setting withing the speedo (usually adjuastable), then you can figure out how many revolutions the wheel has to turn in order to cover a given distance over a given time based on the mph readout.  this can be converted to rpms.  then make a quick cheat sheet that has mph in one column and the correlating rpm in the second column. 

it takes some math, conversions, and head scratching, but you'll get it! 

adam

[Steadfast]

I am at a bicycle shop as we speak... I am buying a cat eye strada cadence wired bicycle computer on sale for $39...

I am buying this bicycle computer to attach to my wind turbine... with the "cadence" setting it will display RPMs.
I need it to be the wired version to add more wire to get it to display 40 feet away from the sensors.
(The wireless versions all have a 5ft broadcast distance only)
And because it is wired it is also on sale only $39 ... about half off... for "old" none wireless tech.

[Steadfast]

Ok here are a few articles I found which explain how to mount a bicycle computer onto a wind turbine and how to use it as an RPM tachometer... Yes the sensor wire can be extended down the mast using Bell wire.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Tachometer-made-from-a-bicycle-speedometer-cycloc/

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Use-a-Cycle-Computer-to-Measure-Turbine-RPM.htm

http://www.maurelma.ch/Infos/Windturbinen/Tip_Speed_Ratio_pma.pdf

Has anyone here done this?  And can tell me I am on the right path?
.
.

[tecker]

I don't see the Rpm function . The pickup is a read switch  fully sealed you just have the wire down the pole to secure so it doesn't get damaged .

[Steadfast]

"Cadence" = RPM

Also, setting the "wheel circumference" in the computer to "166.66cm"
and setting the speed out put to "Km/H" will display RPM as well.

Thus,
the display of "20.5km" will equal "205 RPM"...
"08.3" will equal "83 RPM".... ect ect...

[Steadfast]

Making the new and structurally sound winch base.






What your seeing is the top edge of a large burnt under ground log...
Normally you screw this auger into ground but we hit the burned log 3 feet under ground and had to dig down to it and chisel a hole through the 1ft thick log with a sledge hammer and a 6 ft rod.
What a Massive pain in the butt!!! 

The winch base in place and anchored before concrete was poured..


Winch stand with gin pole and cable system installed. 
When I cranked it up, the gin pole totally displaced all that leveraged weight, which broke the concrete base on the last try, with out it! 
Wooo hooo!!! physics works!


The tail an base up on test raise... 30ft up... no blades yet because the alternator should be delivered next week...



Thanks!!!!  Well done guys!
I couldn't (and foolishly wouldn't) have done it with out you!

once it was up it wiggled twice and the wind stopped dead....   
typical...
.
.

[fabricator]

Well.............yeah that's a pipe up in the sky alright, for now at least, I still predict an impending disaster.................uh........learning experience.

[thingamajigger]

I think it will be just fine hidden behind that big tree

[Steadfast]

I spoke to Todd at hurricane.

He told me I could have him mail my experimental PMA to me or that he could hand deliver it around the 23rd to the 25th of May. 

I asked what the cut in was with a resistance load of 12 volts… He said that he does not have those numbers yet because he has been busy building it…  He said it does  produce 12 volt at 100RPM with no resistance. And that it creates an impressive electric arc at 150RPM which is a good sign of amps.

I pressed him for chart data and he confessed to me that Charts are not a good subject with him, because on all his old units he hired an engineer to draw up charts and the man took advantage of him by giving him bogus charts.  He said that this new design has spawned 4 new designs and that he intends on creating entirely new accurate charts to reflect all his new PMA's abilities…

I told him once that is done he should go back and also make new charts on the old designs too and that his old charts where a big problem for the folks on this forum and made his reputation look pretty bad to them.

He agreed and said that now he knows far more now, then he did back then and that he will not allow himself to be taken advantage of again, by poor farmed out work from labor or lazy engineer's who generated crap numbers just to get him tio cut them a check. 

Todd has to wait another week on the magnet company here in the Raleigh area to cough up an appointment for their nickel tour of their super secret plant. Since he had to wait that extra week vbefore he could get down here, I challenged him to take that extra week to come up with a performance chart on the new PMA with it under a 12 volt resistance. 

He said he would do that…

It looks to me like Todd is trying to turn things around in a BIG way... 

And that is my PMA update for this week…

[ChrisOlson]

I spoke to Todd at hurricane.

I thought his name was "Tony" before.

Just like Dragnet.  "Ladies and Gentlemen, the story you are about to hear is true.  Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent."
--
Chris

[Steadfast]

I spoke to Todd at hurricane.

I thought his name was "Tony" before.

Just like Dragnet.  "Ladies and Gentlemen, the story you are about to hear is true.  Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent."
--
Chris

ha ha ha...
Right you are...my mistake... 

[Steadfast]

BTW:
Today, I am buying a second set of 6V golf cart deep cell batteries
(you guys asked what kind of batteries they where at one time:
They are called SLI GT 110 batteries. (They are 110 amp hour batteries each)

I plan to wire the second set in series to get 12v and then wire the 4 batteries together in parallel to maintain my 12v system and double my storage capacity in my shed's generator.
what is that...440 amp hours total?

[tanner0441]

Hi

I and others I think are looking forward to the delivery of your turbine.  I also want to see pictures of it spinning feverishly away while the trees in your pictures are waving in the same wind.

I bought a large scale analogue amp meter for my system so I could see quickly what the system was doing, digitals are OK but multiplexed seven segment displays don't photograph well.

Good luck

Brian

[Steadfast]

I bought a large scale analogue amp meter for my system so I could see quickly what the system was doing, digitals are OK but multiplexed seven segment displays don't photograph well.

I was going to do that too...
but...
The "Doc Wattson" putts out much more live information for the money.
the tons of live info was well worth settling for the small display...