Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.

[JW]

Im going to say something here.

I have followed this thread since before and the "lightweight" one two.

I have to admit, erecting a "tower" with guy wires and all is a bit daughting, I wouldnt try it on my land because you need to be like 90 feet up and $#|+.

I think you guys energies would be better spent advising SF to go with a VAWT... He could have a 40ft "free-standing platform" and could still use Chris's generator, as what I understood is had a "low" cut-in speed. He just needs an intermittant bearing to support some VAWT blades and such...

I think SF would do better in that arrangement and would actually have some fun experimenting with different blade configurations for a VAWT...

The ridicule here is pretty bad. If we cant do it one way "why cant we do it the other way"?

JW

[JW]

Look, if SF built the platform based on wood moving pallets, he could make a stable structure based on wood with like a 6 foot diameter (square 6x6) he could throw a VAWT up there or even a HAWT.

I just think with what his neighbor said about the property line, he would do better with a free standing platform instead of a mast.

JW

[Bruce S]

Okay folks as a GM I am going now for time being everyone NOT helping to NOT post snide remarks further
 SF has endured these remarks from people actually trying actively help ; these people as exempt
Anyothers adding snide remarks will be dealt with directly and swiftly.
Don't like it? Stuff!
Warrior do not post like this ! period ! its not helpful and I've received too admin reports to put up with anymore of them.
Bruce S

[JW]

Chris Daughtry - Home
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUFhfp46zc


jw

[ChrisOlson]

Just checking in on this - been gone for a couple days.

It appears Steadfast needs a heavier duty tower, and he don't have room to raise a heavier tower.  That short of a gin is going to be a challenge even with a 30 foot tower, once you put some weight into the tower.

I learned some things here I didn't know before (or never paid attention to) - the tower needs to be moved to a more suitable location rather than on the end of that shed.  That shed is pretty much useless as an anchor, or pull point, for any sort of tower anyway.  All along I assumed he was raising a guyed tower and never thought for an instant about trying to raise a pipe tower with no side guys!  Never in my wildest dreams imagined anybody even trying it.

Somebody mentioned putting up a couple sections of Rohn 25G and this would work fine as a free-standing tower, but it's going to take a decent sized hole and a redi-mix truck to fill it because you're not going to want to mix the amount bag crete a free-standing tower will take in the base.  And it means climbing the tower and hoisting everything to the top and assembling the turbine piece by piece on the stub - unless you want to hire a crane or boom truck to put it up there.

You can get cranes - this is our Jacobs turbine on it's way to the top.  But notice that dude hanging off the side of that SSV tower 90 feet in the air?  Guess who that is?  Yep - BTDT.  And it ain't cheap with cranes at $300 to stick in the key in the switch and $650 an hour once the engine starts.  And it ain't fun trying to line up the bolt holes on the head with a 2,600 lb turbine dangling on a wire rope 90 feet in the air.



This thread is a lesson that there's only one way to do things with wind power - the right way.  Which is usually expensive.  But the wrong way is more expensive yet.  Solar is easy and cheap by comparison.
--
Chris

[fabricator]

Im going to say something here.

I have followed this thread since before and the "lightweight" one two.

I have to admit, erecting a "tower" with guy wires and all is a bit daughting, I wouldnt try it on my land because you need to be like 90 feet up and $#|+.

I think you guys energies would be better spent advising SF to go with a VAWT... He could have a 40ft "free-standing platform" and could still use Chris's generator, as what I understood is had a "low" cut-in speed. He just needs an intermittant bearing to support some VAWT blades and such...

I think SF would do better in that arrangement and would actually have some fun experimenting with different blade configurations for a VAWT...

The ridicule here is pretty bad. If we cant do it one way "why cant we do it the other way"?

JW

Because it's hogwash, that's why, I would never under ANY circumstances recommend a VAWT as they are as a general rule a complete waste of money, money better spent on more solar.

[Mary B]

Rohn 25 is not free standing tower. Designed to be guyed/house bracketed. Advantage is the stiffness with a load on top. I had 30 feet house bracketed with a 45 pound antenna/rotator load that I regularly tilted down for maintenance.

[keithturtle]

Rohn 25 is not free standing tower

That's right- I'm laying mine horizontal with T-channel welded to it to act as a crane track over the dam to set the hydroturbine

(off topic, sorry)

Turtle

[wildbill]

I have been reading these posting for some time now,they are going wild! I put up a 35' three leg TV tower with the first 20'
a four legged on a 4'x4'x4' base and lot's of re-rod . I do not have a wind gen. but i do have a air pumper free standing, it has 8 fins 7' diam. The head is 84# and things work just find even in 60m/h wind( it is the one in my diary aeration) my gin poll is 20' with  a 1/2" life line at 90 deg. hoked to my tractor . Not that a wench wouldn't work and i can raise and lower it by myself with the 4' hing it's stable.

[fabricator]

WINCH.

[wildbill]

YES, sorry!

[madlabs]

Personally, I'd rather have a wench help me with raising and lowering. Alas, I am stuck with a come-a-long.

Jonathan

[Frank S]

I knew this cute little wench once she had all of the qualities of a divorce for a married man of a broken heart for a single man. Flaming red hair Opalline green eyes O h! uh never mind

[tanner0441]

Well!!

That's blown the theory that turbine builders were all good clean living guys. I wonder if the solar guys are any cleaner living???

Brian

[DamonHD]

Possibly better tanned and with fewer impact injuries and splinters...

Rgds

Damon

[ChrisOlson]

That's blown the theory that turbine builders were all good clean living guys.

Who ever said turbine builders are good clean living guys in the first place?  We're usually covered with grease from using our clothes to wipe our hands on.  If we got a shirt it's got holes in it - burned by welder sparks.  If we don't have a shirt we got sunburn from welding.  And most of us drink a lot of beer because you can't put up a turbine tower when it's 100 degrees in the shade without it.
--
Chris

[Steadfast]

WINCH.

stop calling wildbill a "winch"... he he he...

[tecker]

To bring these ideas back around to the project . There's a light weight Turbine in the works in a low wind area . Probably solid density at at 60 feet or better . The builder has gone through several changes to get to this phase of the build bigger blades, all the Ebay Jive Chickens ,Brave spirited Chippy forums , . Leading up to the placement of the Genset up and charging .
 It's a rich heritage we have in this procedure. Grinding our way to the user phase . Caught up in this Life golf . Through the lowfrequency traps .  down the fairway to the green . I say it's not going to change soon but in the interim we are here and stabbing at the real world.   

[fabricator]

That's blown the theory that turbine builders were all good clean living guys.

Who ever said turbine builders are good clean living guys in the first place?  We're usually covered with grease from using our clothes to wipe our hands on.  If we got a shirt it's got holes in it - burned by welder sparks.  If we don't have a shirt we got sunburn from welding.  And most of us drink a lot of beer because you can't put up a turbine tower when it's 100 degrees in the shade without it.
--
Chris

I got a pair of clog type slip on slipper things they are leather ish, the things have welding splatter burns, dried on epoxy paint and various types of hardened resin on em. If clean living includes no beer and no swearing, that AINT real life turbine builders, if the had a reality show about building turbines it'd be just like American Chopper or Jesse James, every third word would be bleeped out.

[Steadfast]

Sorry that I have not posted much over the past week.
but, All Im doing is amasing parts right now... (yawn)

Because none of you chose to directly answer my pipe size question: 
I chose to build the  30ft gin tower With
one 20ft, 3"x3", 1/4" thick square structure pipe,
With one 12ft, 2.5"x2.5", 1/4" thick square structure pipe
(slid 1 OR 2 ft down inside the 3X3 and welded, making the 30ft mast)
With one 8ft Gin Pole made from 2.5"x2.5", 1/4 " thick square structure pipe
weighing a total of 344 pounds (this includes a 7ft, 60 pound turbine on the end)

BTW:
Just wait until you see how I solved the "guy line through the shed" problem
which you guys have been complaining about... 

This Saturday we will start building the 3rd, and final, mast and posting photos.

I am hopeful that we can raise the new mast (alone) by Saturday evening,
but Sunday is more likely.

Once it is successful, on the following July 1st weekend,
I will have choose which turbine (LBird or HBird) to start testing first,
because both will take the same amount of time to complete and fly.

My wife said I should fly the HBird first, because you guys delivered it to me first...
(I see her point)
Im thinking it might be interesting to go from small to big...
(and to see the increase of output)

What do you guys think I should do?
.
.

[breezyears]

I may have missed something???
Did you get the redelco?

[ChrisOlson]

The way I understand it, Steadfast has not seen the ReDelco yet.  He's got a promise that it's "going out in the mail".  But it's an experimental one, not the one he ordered.  We've hear rumors about the experimental one having high-time-warp elliptical Vortex Magnets, Cascading Electrical Waves, and probably some Top Secret stuff we don't know about yet.  I would think it would have white racing stripes too.

We'll know for sure when (if) he gets it.
--
Chris

[ChrisOlson]

Because none of you chose to directly answer my pipe size question: 

OK, I'll answer directly.  That structural tubing you got will work fine.  With an 8 foot gin it will be hard to raise.  I could work out the pull force on the winch if you really need to know.  But it will be big.  Real Big.  Test it with a dummy weight on it and it if works you're good to go.

You could have what was known in the Middle Ages as a trebuchet.  So just observe safety practices when test raising it because if the winch or winch mounting lets go you'll want to be clear of the launch trajectory when it gets slung into low earth orbit. 
--
Chris

[Steadfast]

racing stripes.....
ooooo...aaaah...oooohhhh   

but seriously:
Tony made it clear that the PMA will be painted
with pearlized, heat set, candy apple red, car paint and clearcoat!
I kid you not!

[Steadfast]

Because none of you chose to directly answer my pipe size question: 

OK, I'll answer directly.  That structural tubing you got will work fine.  With an 8 foot gin it will be hard to raise.  I could work out the pull force on the winch if you really need to know.  But it will be big.  Real Big.  Test it with a dummy weight on it and it if works you're good to go.

You could have what was known in the Middle Ages as a trebuchet.  So just observe safety practices when test raising it because if the winch or winch mounting lets go you'll want to be clear of the launch trajectory when it gets slung into low earth orbit. 
--
Chris

he he he...
Shaaawooo, Thanks for your confirmation Chris! (I needed that)
I too think it should work out ok... here is why:

1st:
I am running with Franks design:


2nd:
I have a massive 3000# winch (2X the siz of the old one)
with 50ft of 5/16 cable running through 2 snatch blocks.
I will be guying it with 1/4 cable, in two places...

(although I could go with 3 guys between the gin to the mast if you suggest it)
.
.

[Steadfast]

Soooo, which bird should I fly first?

My wife said I should fly the HBird first, because you guys delivered it to me first...
(I see her point)

Im thinking it might be interesting to go from small to big...
(and to see the increase of output)

[tanner0441]

Hi

If you put the big turbine up first, it has a predictable performance and you will have a benchmark for the delco to match. Did you get something to measure wind speed? It would also be interesting to compare your blades, lift versus drag.

Did you get a pully block to reduce the effort on the winch?

Brian

[Steadfast]

Snatch blocks are pullys

[Frank S]

1st:
I am running with Franks design:


2nd:
I have a massive 3000# winch (2X the siz of the old one)
with 50ft of 5/16 cable running through 2 snatch blocks.
I will be guying it with 1/4 cable, in two places...

(although I could go with 3 guys between the gin to the mast if you suggest it)
.
.

SF I only drew 2 guys from the mast to the anchor points and on the gin for simplistically  of the drawing explanation.
 my main point was to have the tower resting on  something to hold the bitd off of the ground when you started up with it also the higher off of the ground you start the lower the loading forces will be in the winch mount. every degree above horizontal you have before starting to winch the lower the load becomes.
  the reason the gin is guyed in the forward position is for 2 reasons !st it is slightly forward of 90 to place it in the optimum starting arc in a perfect world in would be rigid mounted to the ground at vertical and remain there throughout the pull allowing the top guy to lift away for it as the pole rose above critical.
  However doing it that way would mean you would not have secondary support/s while lifting.
 this is why so many pull directly on the gin pole also to take advantage of a follow through fulcrum.
 ON super tall towers there is yet another method that incorporates multiple gins  in with active compounding
 the short gin would be a few degrees forward the 2nd 2rd 4rh all would be laying on the tower at the start and would each raise to a degree relative to where the next would wind up and so on until the tower started to raise
 as the tower gets higher these secondary gins change their relative angles never causing the live line to venture past a straight line pull.
 you don;t need anything like that . however there are certain merits to 1 secondary gin that would be 15 to 18 feet tall that started out at around 15 to 20 degrees forward of vertical  providing you were using 2 winches.
 still it would add complexity.
 IN your situation your most critical area is going to be maintaining tension on the guys to be located on the shed side
 you say you have this worked out and that's great just remember once the tower lifts off it;s rest it wants to try and go to the  left or right and will if not held on center-line  of the pull at all times.

[JW]

Things seem to be rolling along just fine here thanks for all the hard work guys

Primitive radio gods - Standing outside a Broken Phone Booth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1piLRStP7xE

JW

[fabricator]

You want an answer? OK here is your answer, rip your WRONGLY placed winch anchor out of the ground, OR, leave it there and pour a new foundation out 50% the length of you tower, then go with the 3" sched 40 with the 3.5 sched 40 for a slip fit and use 3" sched 40 for your gin. QED.

WTF are you talking about nobody wants to directly answer? this was three or four pages ago.

[JW]

1/4in wall thick is about sch80

[fabricator]

Nuh uh,  schedual 40.