Author Topic: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?  (Read 17675 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« on: July 12, 2012, 08:35:11 AM »
Yeasterday,
I received my 100 watt new solar panel to back up my wind turbine,
in less than optimal condition:   :-\







BUMMER!  :(

I purchased it on EBAY:
and the Chinese company that sent it was QUICK on their toes to replace it. in fact, there is a new one in the mail as we speak. They do not want the broken one back but they DO WANT positive feed back...

SOOOOOO, (knowing nuthin bout birthen no solar panels)
I was wondering that if the busted one works, would it be ok/safe to replace (or add on top) another pane of glass, mount it on top of my shed next to the new one, and get twice the power for the same price...

sort of making a lemon into lemon aid????
.
.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 08:39:26 AM by Steadfast »
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 09:34:28 AM »
WOW!!! :o
Yes it can be saved!!, best way to tell if any internals are toast is to stick it out in the sun and put a meter on it, then grab a small semi drained battery and a meter in current mode setting and see what output you get.
 As far as coating it, a clear varnish painted on slow and thin would be what I'd be trying. Make sure and get the UV stable or outside stuff CWF<-? type stuff.
Others will chime in who've had hale damaged units.
Good on the China company jumping on getting you a replacement!!
IF you don't mind me asking what did you pay including shipping?
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 10:07:41 AM »
$185... total...
Its a 100watt poly
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 10:11:36 AM »
Send me PM with  the ebay link when you have the time:-)
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 10:20:07 AM »
Send me PM with  the ebay link when you have the time:-)
Im on my break...so I have the time...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320937207807
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 10:23:14 AM »
If it works and If I get them both running,
I could have up to 200w of solar for $185.00

That's .93 cents a watt..... not too shabby!   ;D
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

birdhouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
  • Country: us
  • Portland, OR USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 11:31:01 AM »
SF-  ideally it will still work, but even if it does, expect ~40w from it.  i received 390w of broken panels for free a while back.  i repaired them with automotive 2 part clear cote.  you can read about it here:

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,145487.msg989445.html#msg989445

adam

Tritium

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2012, 03:04:08 PM »
That panel must have been handled by a 600lb gorilla. My arrays have been through shipping, 80 mph wind storms, hail and lightning strikes very nearby and they are unfazed to date.

My setup:  http://www.sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=show_system_with_modules&id=23&pm=1

Thurmond

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2012, 03:20:43 PM »
I like the clearcoat idea... it is an elligant solution.
but at $75 is not cost effective to end up with a 40watt panel.

I was also thinking about buying a piece of plexiglass big enought to fit over the top of frame and useing some Black Putty Tape to stick the plexi onto the frame.


sealing the solar panel.

what do you guys think of that idea?

Lets see:
I already own the putty tape.
OPTIX 2'8" x 3'8" Clear Acrylic at Lowes runs $25.98

« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 03:50:58 PM by Steadfast »
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2012, 04:16:35 PM »
Biggest problem I see, is those neat little crevices getting moister and growing cute little sea monkeys in them  ;D.
My idea was so the unit would be sealed from moister and dirt, cheaper than 28/gal too.
AND unless that is lexan OR UV proof it will yellow and harden over time causing a new problem in a couple years.
YOU could CWA it then put a thin lexan over it to help stiffen it up, just make sure the plastic is UV and outdoors rated.
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2012, 04:30:06 PM »
Biggest problem I see, is those neat little crevices getting moister and growing cute little sea monkeys in them  ;D.
My idea was so the unit would be sealed from moister and dirt, cheaper than 28/gal too.
AND unless that is lexan OR UV proof it will yellow and harden over time causing a new problem in a couple years.
YOU could CWA it then put a thin lexan over it to help stiffen it up, just make sure the plastic is UV and outdoors rated.
Bruce S
hmmm, sea monkeys....bad....
whats the name of the stuff you are talking about that is cheaper than $28/gal ???

How about "Rust-Oleum Ultimate Spar Varnish"???
.
.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 04:39:22 PM by Steadfast »
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2012, 05:48:03 PM »
Sf;
 MORE like "Cabot Quart Clear Spar Varnish" Marine grade.
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2012, 05:57:01 PM »
I have devised a plan to kill off the sea monkey threat, so I can use glass and puddy tape, and hopefully not loose efficiancy from the use of varnish or clearcoat.  I was thinking about how I could go about eliminating the moisture in the tiny space between the broken glass and the new glass sheet. What if I get four of those little moisier sucking packets that you find inside of pill bottles and place them in the corners of the panel under glass? There has got to be far more space inside four pill bottles than inside the space between the glass andthe broken glass.

No moisture + direct light = no sea monkeys.

What do you think?
.
.
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2012, 07:12:41 PM »
Have to seal the surface or it will fill with water.

Tritium

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2012, 08:30:00 PM »
If you use more glass it needs to be low iron which is costly. I would use the varnish and call it good.

Thurmond

dave ames

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2012, 03:16:03 AM »

Hey Steadfast,

If you have had a chance to see if that module is worth saving..Any news ?

And if it's still good, Might as well fix it right and give it chance to live out it's original warranty period...(IMHO)

After you read and understand this tutorial by our friend oztules, you will be good to go in getting that panel back in service..and...with a bit of hackery you can even do it for zero dollars :o

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,145005.0.html

Stuff you will need:

Large plastic bag...trash bag- or home made bag big enough for the module.

Enclosure...cardboard box-wood box-oven with cardboard box extension?

HVAC vacuum pump...borrowed from neighbor or friend?

Piece of glass...any kind of cutable glass will do-free is good and worth a few percent extra loss. (IMHO)

A heat source...capable of an even heat up to about 250*f-and a way to monitor the heat.

A scrap of surplus EVA..see PM


It's all good fun!
cheers, dave

Rob Beckers

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: ca
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2012, 10:49:20 AM »
Steadfast, PV modules consist of 5 layers: The glass (which in your case is broken), a layer of EVA (think "sticky clear plastic"), the solar cells and their connections, another layer of EVA, and a back panel made of tedlar (to give it impact resistance from that side). When this sandwich is put together, it's put in an oven, where the EVA is melted, glueing the cells, glass, and tedlar together (think "hamburger with cheese on both sides").

The glass is what gives it rigidity, and that's what you've lost since it's broken. Unlike comments in this thread, water is not a problem by itself, for a broken panel, the EVA still seals the cells and connections from both sides. If that water grows stuff it may impede the light going through, which of course will affect the output of the panel, but other than that it's not an issue.

Most of the time I've seen broken panels work fine, at least for a while. However, lacking rigidity the wind will do 'm in when left outside. The flexing of cells and soldered connections will eventually crack/break them, and that's the end of the panel. Not sure how sealing will help; it won't make the panel wind-resistant again. Adding a layer of plexiglass or polycarbonate might help, but you'll likely loose quite a bit of output.

To test if your panel still works, put it out in full sun and measure the voltage. That's "Voc" (for 'open-circuit') of the panel. Now flip the panel over so the cells are in the dark, connect your multi-meter in series with the wires, short-circuiting it, flip it back into the sun and measure the current. That's "Isc". Compare with the spec sheet (if it's a hot day you'd have to correct for temperature as well, at least for Voc, which goes down .37% for (roughly) every 2F above 77F. If both values are still in the ballpark, your panel will still work.

Thought I'd give you a quick explanation, so you can better judge what may or may not work (and so you know what you're up against). Good luck!

-RoB-

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 08:22:04 AM »
I put the "100 watt" broken solar cell out in the full sun on Saturday...
which was the first day of full on sun in a while...


My doc wattson clocked its max output around 60watts...
I took it to lowes to buy some glass but they only sold that super thin junk...
So on Tuesday I plan to hit a Glass Shop and get some glass with a bit more backbone.

A frend of mine just gave me 20 pallets = lots of free wood.
Perhaps I can put some of that free wood on the back to keep it from flexing?

I'll take photos of the fix process.



« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 08:29:39 AM by Steadfast »
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 08:44:25 AM »
Make sure you get the right sort of glass that lets through what the cells can absorb, not just that is physically though enough.

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2012, 06:36:34 AM »
Fully intending to buy glass today...

And that glass type is....?????
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

DamonHD

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 4125
  • Country: gb
    • Earth Notes
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2012, 07:36:26 AM »
I believe that the stuff you want is "low iron" glass.

Having not done any panel repair/building myself I can only report what I have seen here!

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

@DamonHD@mastodon.social

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 07:58:50 AM »
Cool... thanks I will ask for it by name...  :D
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 02:52:10 PM »
$54 for the glass.... 
Ummmmm NOOOO....

VARNISH IT IS ...
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »
 ;D remember to make sure it's UV stabilized ;D.
Thin coats out of the sun, laying flat on solid level surface ,let it setup, build up and set the shards in place.
IF the back is flimsy from glass being broken, you can cross-cut 1x6 into "X" to strengthen  back up.
Cheers;
Bruce S
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Tritium

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2012, 12:29:58 AM »
$54 for the glass.... 
Ummmmm NOOOO....

VARNISH IT IS ...

See post #14 where I said low iron and it was costly AND to use varnish instead. (I am a low cost kind of guy also);)

Thurmond

Mary B

  • Administrator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2012, 02:15:57 AM »
Or cut some scrap plywood for the back and epoxy it in place.

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2012, 05:57:57 AM »
Sf;
 MORE like "Cabot Quart Clear Spar Varnish" Marine grade.
I bought the stuff you suggested and poured on a coat of it.
Used a brush to spread it out...

How long should I wait for it to dry? A few days?
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: us
  • Home with a view of Double mountain
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2012, 08:45:57 AM »
SF just exactly how did you go about POURING that coat on the panel?
 The Key is Thin coats to allow the varnish to leach its way into the millions of cracks Was there a recommended Reducer or thinner.
 I hope the brush you used was the highest quality VARNISH brush available made out of horse hair  and not a paint brush  lost hairs are hard to see and even more difficult to remove' Personally I was thinking that the guys were talking about spraying the coats on but I may be mistaken.
 Be sure to leave it perfectly flat and not move it until it is dry. AND I hope it is where there is no dust but in full sun most of the day.
 that poured on coat may equal as many as 20 sprayed on coats in thickness.   
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2012, 09:08:47 AM »
Yup...I poured it on right out of the can, and spread it out with a "High Quality" $9 brush.
when I was done the wet varnish looked about 1-16 to 1/8 inch thick...
If that equals "multple layers" already... I will just call it good at one coat...

It is lying flat inside my closed shed...
I figuired the shed has less tiny junk blowing in the wind or falling from trees like it would if I left it outside... If the surface becomes no longer sticky, i can always take it out and put it in the sun to let it dry/cook more...  Do you suggest I do that?
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Country: us
  • Home with a view of Double mountain
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2012, 09:45:38 AM »
Since I've never done it either I wouldn't move it now until it has taken a good set but then as soon a sit is no longer tacky get in in the sunshine to bake I hope it doesn't become cloudy. But I bet you are looking at less than a 50 watt panel when finished 
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

Bruce S

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 5374
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2012, 09:54:11 AM »
SF;
YOU poured it on!!  :o
CRAP!! I'm pretty sure I said thin coats . A thin coat takes overnight to dry to a good tackiness so you can put another one on.
1/16" will take about 2 weeks to come good and tacky were moving it won't crack the varnish :(,
even with super dry 105F weather. It's the thinness and multilayer that gives it it's strength.
THIS will be interesting  >:(
Best of luck
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2012, 10:16:40 AM »
Hey.... I was just fallowing the directions....  :-\
from birdhouse's link: http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,145487.msg989445.html#msg989445

here's what the panels looked like before i'd done anything to them, other than a thorough vac job. 



after two coats, i was able to run the palm sander on them without hitting any glass.  this was needed to get rid of some of the marks from where the air bubbles were coming out.  i was pouring the coats on right out of the bucket, then rolling it in, then brushing.  
here's a pic right after sanding-



here's a pic after the third and final coat.  i think they look better, and hopefully now have a second skin to help protect them. 



it's supposed to be sunny this afternoon, so i'm gonna try and see what they can do!

they are 195w evergreens with a Vmp of 18ish, and their final home will be with a 24v nom. bank.  so i'll have a Vmp of 36ish.  this extra voltage may help them with their imperfectness. 

adam
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Steadfast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
  • Country: us
Re: Broken solar panel - can it be resurrected?
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2012, 09:03:37 AM »
while the broken solar cell dries...
(photos of that coming)  ;)

yesterday, I received in the mail the replacement solar cell.
I have to still test the output in full on sun...
but it looks ok... except for one small dent in the aluminum side.





By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!