MY possible bug out

[Frank S]

Decided to put this here rather than hijack the Midnight classic thread
This may be a hijack if so I apologize but I was reading about one of the 3ph Industrial sized inverters with its built in Mppt that was in the 400 to 600v range. these range from the $15K to $150K price range way too rich for my blood.
If my relocation becomes a reality I will need 3 ph probably say 400v @ 50 amps during the day but only house current at night still prefer 400v 3 ph but will only require about 1500 watts per hour max
 I have Zero need or use for 120v even should I relocate to Texas which would be in the western region  probably near  Loving county or down around big bend NP there will be no grid available for miles
 I know Chris O's set up can use PV wind and generator to charge his bank at 24V or if he wanted to go to the trouble to rearrange to 48v he could
 Could something like a stack of the midnight classics be used to accomplish the 400v 3 ph and charge a storage bank  I'm not going to try to have a bank large enough to power the daily usage that will have to be a combination of Pv Turbine & or generator The area if Texas wins out over Europe I can count on 300+ solar days and at least 200 or more with usable wind The generator will probably be diesel because that affords the importunity to use BIO or WVO. But mostly on days when there is no wind or enough solar to run then I will probably just go hunting or fishing or do something that does not require much electrical
 I'm visualizing a storage bank at least half the size to what Chris has maybe as large that must still be worked out  for PV I am thinking I will spring for about 20 sq meters in the beginning then add for wind I have the access to the 43 meter communications tower or I might sell it and use the money to build 3 or 4 smaller towers. after spending as much time reading this board as I have 3 or 4 25 meter towers might produce better overall results than one big one
 This is still very much planning stages, budget considerations may be a huge factor in the end depending on the outcome of my leaving here if I will be able to take a lump sum or a pay out schedule

[SparWeb]

Instead of "stacking" small equipment from Midnight, you might consider going up the scale a little, Sunny boy, Fronius, Aurora, or the like.  Even those would probably need to be stacked.
With a bit of legwork, maybe you could find some used ~10kW inverters for a good price.

If you're aiming at a ~20 kW rating then you've walked straight out the "residential" equipment door and into the "commercial" building.  Those inverters you're reading about are expensive for a reason.  Compliance to code when handling that much power, and high voltage, is difficult, and the demand for bulk or mass-production is not there.  The breakdown voltage of every component in the inverter has to meet a very high spec, so every FET, capacitor, diode, etc. component on the board is a special item.  Read $$$.

[Frank S]

Sparweb I have data on Soltec and a couple others and have read many sites pertaining to 3ph inverter equipment in hte 7 to 500 KW ranges. I won't need grid tie in any way shape form or fashion norwill I require a large storage bank butwill require Generator interface I can always wire in a control circuit to start up and match in the generator to handle inrush currents then if hte wind or PV is up to hte load the generator could fall out. In the beginning the generator will be providing all of the current anyway. I just want a way to reduce the need to run it I have a 30KW Turkish made diesel generator that needs some work but hopefully I will be able to pull it out of service from a construction site long enough before I decide to begin packing up to put it back in good condition prior to shipping.
 

[bob g]

check out the exeltech mx series inverter systems
there is one on ebay right now for a very good price buy it now.

it can be configured single, split or three phase, and up to 60kwatts if i recall correctly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXELTECH-MX1000-48V-POWER-MODULE-/221131653140?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337c794014

they come up on ebay every once in a while, this particular unit would have a replacement cost probably a bit over 14grand.

on second thought you don't need 120volts?  they do make other voltages, and this unit can be reconfigured with a few more modules to make three phase 208volts iirc

bob g

[Frank S]

Bob;  When I lived in Germany back in the 70s  every appliance I owned was 220 v 50 HZ  When I moved back to Texas in 77 I had the hardest time running them. Had to either use 2 ph with no neutral somethings don't like to be used that way, or run them on a step up transformer this is what I had to do in my first house When I built my second house  my solution was to add a large step down or balance transformer at the panel then I ran parallel color distinguished conduits (I've never used romex nailed in a wall in my life) one with N-220-G and one with N-120-G and one with the standard 120 v from the panel things like the Water heater the furnace the AC and the dryer were ran directly from the panel as well, effectively I had 3 wiring schemes in the house which would have driven a USA trained electrician crazy
Gradually over the next decades things wore out and were replaced with 120 v appliances until the 3rd & 4th houses I owned I no longer bothered with the European style voltage line  but I was fortunate enough to have 3 ph in the last house if you call voltage with the 208 wild leg 3 ph
 After a decade of living over here I am down to a total of 2 items in the house that requires 120 v and 3 item in my factory that run on 120 v
 So I will set up the house and my shop with a 5 wire 400-415 v 3 ph  220-240 v per line  for a true balanced way of loading
 I can imagine the cost of  replacing 100 items that run on 220 v or 2 ph 400 v for things that 120 /220 v  most of the things I own in all likely hood will outlast me.   

[SparWeb]

Another potential choice:

http://www.sustainableenergy.com/index.php?id=126

208VAC versions available, but you have to buy 3!
Solar array voltage max 150V. 
5 kW rating, but with 3 then that's 15 kiloWatts.

---darn - it's a grid-intertie ONLY inverter (of course!)  sorry.

[ChrisOlson]

I have Zero need or use for 120v even should I relocate to Texas which would be in the western region  probably near  Loving county or down around big bend NP there will be no grid available for miles
 I know Chris O's set up can use PV wind and generator to charge his bank at 24V or if he wanted to go to the trouble to rearrange to 48v he could

Yes, I can go 48 volt if I want, just by rewiring the bank and swapping the inverters out with 48 volt units.  My Classics run the solar and wind turbines well above voltages for a 48 volt system.  I went with 24 volt because stuff like disconnects and breakers for 24 volt are common as dirt.  48 volt stuff is harder to find - and more expensive.  And with MPPT power sources the one and only difference is how much amps the inverters pull, which is not a problem.

I don't know what you intend to do, but have you considered keeping your house separate like we got ours?  Then you can use common equipment for the house to keep the lights on, and just run a diesel generator for the "business" loads.  That's what we do - we got a 250 kW Cummins/Onan generator, and when it's sized right for what you're doing it's not really all that expensive to run for the few hours a year that it has to provide power for the big stuff.

When you have an off-grid home it would be stupid to start up a big 30 kW Turkish generator just for the house in the event the sun failed to shine and the wind refused to blow.
--
Chris

[Frank S]

CHris of course I would not ever think of firing up a generator that is going to burn 2 gallons of fuel per hour just so the wife could watch TV for that I would have a small Low RPM diesel maybe a Literoid clone.
 There are 2 sides to having the house completely separate however it will require AC even though I am planning on making the walls out of foamed concrete modular blocks. this still means a minimum of  a 24,000 BTU unit for a 1500 sq ft home to maintain temps @ or below 78f with ambient outside air @ 105f
 I will not consider an AC unit less than 42,000Btu for the active system unless I can come up with a suitable design for a passive system  that would handle most of the load then I could possibly down size the Primary AC unit to a 18,000 BTU split unit  this could be run on 220v 1ph or 400v 2 ph  an 18,000 btu 1ph still places nearly as much per line load as a 42,000BTU 3 ph @ 2 ph the line loading is much less.  However this would mean much of the 220v 1ph load would have to be used on the remaining free line. then when the AC was not pn which would be 70% of the time all of the 1ph load would be on the single line.
  I have been searching for how the telecom inverters and Banks are set up in the US

 My wife has a nearly brand new washer & dryer US made the washer was 220v 1ph that was great, however the dryer was 220v 2ph like the US current trying to use it on 220v 1ph and Neutral overloaded the house panel as I could not get a 40 amp circuit or plug so I didn't want to tear into a brand new dryer and split the elements I took the easy route and bought a transformer 400v 3ph Primary 0-240v secondary after that the dryer was fat and happy until the house owner was ablr to have the wire size upgraded now I don't have to use the transformer but the plug & socket are too small for my likeing
 I can speak 3ph 400, 480, or even 600v but I never learned to like 110/120 for anything
 And the way the US grid system is laid out nearly 20% of all energy goes directly to ground
 But this is all still in the  budgetary planning stage If the wife finds a house that she falls in love with if it has wood in it for more than trim & decoration I may hope that it would burn down before our stuff could be moved into it if it happens to already be connected to the grid then a complete new plan must be worked up because I'm not opposed to using the grid as long as I can do it my way

[ChrisOlson]

My wife has a nearly brand new washer & dryer US made the washer was 220v 1ph that was great, however the dryer was 220v 2ph like the US current trying to use it on 220v 1ph and Neutral overloaded the house panel as I could not get a 40 amp circuit or plug so I didn't want to tear into a brand new dryer and split the elements I took the easy route and bought a transformer 400v 3ph Primary 0-240v secondary after that the dryer was fat and happy until the house owner was ablr to have the wire size upgraded now I don't have to use the transformer but the plug & socket are too small for my likeing
 I can speak 3ph 400, 480, or even 600v but I never learned to like 110/120 for anything

It's 240V single phase in the US and split phase is 120/240.  The national standard for household voltage, for instance, is 120 nominal, minimum 114, maximum 126.  There is no 220V two-phase anywhere left on earth.

Why are you running your house on three-phase power?  There is no advantage.  European three-phase is 230/400, but all running single phase loads in a house does with a three-phase service is get the legs all out of balance.  That might be OK with Mains power, but it won't work worth a crap with a three-phase generator, or inverter, powering house loads.  Not to mention that 230/400 is 50 Hz instead of 60.
--
Chris

[Frank S]

call it split phase  add 1 208 wild leg and have 3 ph 220
230/400 50hz or 240/460-80 60hz  4 pole @ 1500 RPM or 4 pole @ 1800 RPM little better efficiency produced by the flux density of the gen stator at 60 hz speed recovery from 0 to full load with a gen running at 1800 is slightly better than one at 1500
A 1500 rpm engine would run 2400 hrs to accumulate the same amount of piston travel as one running @ 1800 rpm for 2000 hrs
 AndI really don't care if  I set up @ 50 hz or 60hz
 80% of the world could benefit by upping to 60HZ At the same time the US Canada Japan Korea the Philippines & of all places Saudi Arabia could benefit by up grading to 220-240
The reason I want 3 phase in the house is I haven't lived in a house that didn't have 3 phase almost forever. my generator is 50 HZ wired star WYE guys  if you like the term better I could up the rpms to 1800 to get 60hz and simply feed it about 7% more fuel, I would like for it to be one of those inverter type that could produce 40 to 50% power @ 900 rpms but it is not IT would be a big advantage if it were for my shop for when I would be running only a single machine and wasn't having a couple of welders going.
  However there is a valid argument For the house, should I decide against having a hobby work  room in the house and just use the shop I could do without the 3 ph, I might look into going with single phase in the house.
   except for the dryer drawing 30 amps and an AC  and the possibility of the wife talking me into an electric range. the loads would not be that much
 I looked at a couple of used split units today that were single phase about 2 ton units the amp draw aw reasonable @ 15 amps.
 and there is a new INVERTER split ac unit on the market made by LG that has a neo magnet compressor supposedly only draws 9 amps 













 

[ChrisOlson]

call it split phase  add 1 208 wild leg and have 3 ph 220

That would be the old delta three-phase, which was the predecessor to 480/277 and 208/120 here in the US.  Our 250 kW Cummins generator is 480/277.  But we still run our house totally separate on 120/240 split-phase (which is single phase power).

All I'm saying about the house is that none of your loads are three-phase.  So if you run a three-phase service to it, then you have to try to leg balance the phases with a bunch of single phase loads on each leg.  With Mains (or grid) power you don't have to.  But if you get a three-phase inverter or generator its efficiency suffers severely from unbalanced loads on the three legs.

Split phase is bad enough, and that's why we have a T240 autotransformer on our Main panel.  The inverters each feed a bus bar in the panel for the split phase power for the heavy loads.  But some of the 120 volt stuff is one leg, and some on the other.  The inverters don't like that if one is running at 800 watts load and the other at 1.5 kW, then suddenly my wife turns on the oven in her range that draws 3.6 kW.  Now we got one inverter running at 3.3 kW and the other one at 2.6 kW.  And now the well pump starts and suddenly pulls 30 amps @ 240 volt starting surge and suddenly we got an inverter running in overload and it causes the generator to start.

The autotransformer fixes that so that the loads on the two legs of the split phase service stay perfectly balanced and both inverters always have the same load on each one.

See what I'm saying?  With three-phase you're going to add yet another leg and then you REALLY got problems trying to keep it balanced to keep the generator or inverter from overloading on one leg and kicking out - and then all your power goes off.

For off-grid, if you need three phase power I'd stick with the generator and run the three-phase loads with it.  And use single phase in the house, and for basic lighting and single phase loads in the shop - I don't care if it's 120/240 split phase or 230 European-style single phase.

Off-grid with this stuff is way different than when you got Mains power to work with.
--
Chris

[Frank S]

Chris as always you make sense.
I guess that I'm so used to off grid generator in my factory here with 50 20 30 % juggling act 50% 3ph 400v 20%2 ph 400v & 3% 1 ph 230v to maintain  balance now that I no longer have the big 500KW with the 300 KW stand by and have to use a 400KW with the 300 Kw stand by I pay a lot of attention to balanced loading because the auto matching panel was in the 500 machine . Now I can run 1 or the other  but both means  one side of the factory is running on #1 and the other side is running on#2
 The 400 KW can do the job 80% of the time but if the alarm goes off then we have to shut down and rotate the switch Nights and weekends only the 300 is used
 My apartment  here is 3ph the mains are supposed to be 415/230 but all we get is 400/220  when we first got her new dryer it was too heavy to run on 1 leg and I didn't want to split the elements to run it on 400 2 legs 2 ph as I call it So I used a transformer  400 in 220  The house is actually a Villa and it cost the owner over $3 mill to build but he got screwed on the electrical the main panel is supplied by a 35 mm cable , no problem but the 3 Apts are supplied by what I would guess to be about 8 Gage to the panel and a 40 amp main breaker to 2  30 amp ELCBs we finally got the feeder wire replaced with 2 ga Actual 2 ga US military surplus  wire  I juggled the breakers around  so we could remove the transformer the wife hated having it sitting on a night stand in the hall and the cord run along the wall Can't blame here really.

  If we buy the property it looks like we may buy then after considering the actual loading for the house which now looks like will be made out of high cube shipping containers joined together and the side walls cut out
 Then I will only need  single ph 220-30 but no split ph to come up with 120 I don't need it I don't like it I don't want it. Besides when I bought all of the small appliances I bought them by the case and once a whole pallet  of coffee pots but that was a strange purchase We have enough 32" tc's 6 and 2 48" to last 10 life times, (OK they can run on 100 to 240v 50/60hz) and only 3 of them are plasma the rest are LCD none are 3d I can't stand those maybe in 20 years the technology will be better.
  The only way we could ever run out of kitchen stuff would be if we give each of my grand children a complete set when they get married or she and I live to be 150 years old
 The same with 220v power tools for my shop I have 3 pallets of them
 SO see I have a total of 4 things that use 120v & 2 2000 watt step down transformers + the 50 pound 415v>230v thing
  I guess I need to look for a large inverter or a pair of them with 230v output
 I have 1 2500 watt MSW and a 1000w MSW but they are 12V input
 SO now I think you see where I'm coming from if I were to use the grid I would either have to run both legs to every socket I will be using the type British,BS1363 Type G sockets & top plugs
 In the shop I will probably run All IEC stuff for the mobile 3 ph stuff.
   I currently use the IEC 69309-16 32 And 63 amp 5 wire plugs now and I seem to remember they were available at better supply houses there
 Here they do not allow the exposed blade NEMA stuff for 3ph and every single ph 20 amp and above is IEC
 

[Frank S]

Yesterday I stopped by a friends place who sells used machinery he told me he has 4 40 ft High cube containers inbound from Sweden that he owns and Has the much coveted  shipping license for them he told me he would sell me 1 or 2 of them That would work well for me as then I could keep them for storage or cut them up to make a container house out of them. I'm seriously thinking about using part of my term of Service settlement money and build all of the steel for a pre-engineered shop building I think I will have just about enough room if I were to buy 2 container to pack a 40x60x30 building with a beam for a 5 ton bridge crane there would be no room for  sandwich panels but we have a Glas craft MXII foam machine we don't use maybe they will sell it to me cheap A lot will depend on the BOD and Engineers meeting in late Dec whether I will remain with the company and on the BOD but remotely located or if I will tender my resignation and only do contract work when or if asked. 

[Frank S]

My wife thinks she has located 21 acres on a paved road in Hudspeth county TX with electric on the property frontage.
 Doesn't mean that there will not be RE in the works but the prospect of grid & or grid tie alters the entire planning scheme
  This would mean that I will have to either#! run both legs of the power to each and every outlet Would still be the European sockets with the off switches. and not have a neutral or set a transformer and a second panel run the mains to a disconnect breaker then to the transformer and from there to the second panel which would have all of the breakers in it.
 Since there most likely will not be 3 ph available for the shop I would set 2 panels one with the mains and one with the 3 ph from the generator I would have to have 2 panels any way because I've never heard of it being allowed to run single or split ph breakers & 3 ph breakers  out of the same panel for many years now.
Over here and in Europe where the power goes from a main breaker then through an ELCB or RCD  then to the breakers eliminating the need for GFI or equivalent  the problem with these are they disconnect everything/
 I think I just solved my problem (BS 1363, BS 7288, SASO 2203)
 Not available here yet

[ChrisOlson]

Why don't you just have an auction and sell all the European stuff, and buy new US stuff.

The old saying is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans".
--
Chris

[Frank S]

Why don't you just have an auction and sell all the European stuff, and buy new US stuff.

The old saying is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans".
--
Chris

There is that possibility and just such a thought has been circulating around in the back of what I have left of my mind.
 if nothing else I might sell off all of the extra , especially since I just received an email from the real estate guy stating that since this land was part of a large ranch the electricity that runs along frontage property that I was asking about leads to a farm that is closer into town that he is 99% sure that it would be 3 ph because of all of the irrigation and other farming needs.
 Since I grew up on a farm  and we had 3 ph and the years I spent living in Germany always having 3ph I've always considered it more of a requirement than a telephone line.

[Frank S]

I quietly had a talk with our showroom sales manager today, ( We have a retail showroom for all types of automotive equipment and machine shop equipment as well as power and hand tools) We don't sell household appliances but  sometimes will put in a few items for venders, I have 2 palettes of new Kitchen and small home appliances still in their un-opened cartons some of these are now approaching 8 years in age so he and I thought we would drag them from the warehouse maybe next week of the week after and put them out in as a bargain buy display, MY palette of grinders & drill motors I will simply sell to myself for use in the factory or the install crews The company goes through a several 100 grinders every year.
 this will get rid of some of my excess as well.

[JW]

I have 2 palettes of new Kitchen and small home appliances still in their un-opened cartons some of these are now approaching 8 years in age

Do you have anything that will grind lean beef, to make beef jerky. The/my last food processor let out its magic smoke...

My wife bought me a electric razor, damn thing takes two weeks to get.

Frank, I think you would do well posting some stuff in the classified section.

JW

[Frank S]

JW I have tried selling stuff and shipping out of Kuwait. not a good experience unless shipping through the company using the trading license. Mail service is about on par with the US mail which is to say I would go absolutely postal if I had to use it. DHL fed-ex UPS I have used all of those but way too expensive
 So hardly worth the effort in my opinion.
 If you like to make your own jerky I'll give you a little tip.
Find a Commercial meat slicer Hobart used to make the best in the world. then buy the best 2 inch thick cut steak you can
 Set the slicer up with the scallop edged blade not the smooth round bologna blade to slice about 1/8" to 1/4" and cut across the grain of the meat  should give you nice 2" wide strips . Make a seasoned marinade then soak the meat for 3 days in the fridge. Squeegee off all excess moisture then pat a dry as possible. hang on a rack in direct sunlight until dry OH did I mention that it helps if the outside temperature starts out above 100f and gets up to 126f  and the humidity is 2% you will need 10 to 12 hours of sunlight as well. with the desert winds blowing at over20 MPH all day you will have the best jerky you ever tasted as long as it is not a dust day the nit tastes like eating spiced sandy but  tender shoe leather.

[Frank S]

here is a photo of a spot of land I am thinking about buying in the next month or so.

 I have a friend who lives near Dell City who is going to go check it out and make sure there are no liens against it and that the Realtor is  indeed who they claim to be and has all the correct documents pertaining to the sale of this property.

[bob g]

fwiw

pay a real estate atty a couple hundred bucks cash to take a look at all the closing doc's

as they say the devil is in the details!

having bought and sold many pieces of property over the years, having that atty's opinion has made sleeping at night much easier.

if you pay them in cash, no receipt needed, the cost is minimal for the insurance you get.  usually they will find something that is not to your benefit that offsets the minimal expense.

a good atty will know straight up whether all the paperwork is in order, whether the title search was done properly, how is insuring that fact, along with all the other stuff.

when i buy a piece of real property, "an atty, i don't leave home without one"

bob g

[Frank S]

Bob I hadn't wanted to just come out and say it but the friend  is one of those guys who if he would properly dress for his profession he would be wearing a pin striped suit and ugly patent leather penny loafer shoes however he prefers to wear a dusty felt hat faded jeans  denim shirt and a pair of Justin roper boots split down the side he may be retired but he still knows his way around the county records halls. He was one of the guys who was associated with one of the firms who brought down the Wallace Town land frauds a few years back.
  If the local real-estate guy had a property that I wanted I would not have thought twice about just wiring him a down payment then pick up everything when or if I arrived. The guy who has the listing on several properties is out of PA and has been selling properties in that area for 20 years and has a good reputation with the local folk but I've never heard of him until a couple of days ago this is why Fred will be involved I know a few retired Military personnel who own property in the general area but most don't don't live there

[spottrouble]

Frank, are you familiar with Hudspeth County? I drive through it a couple times a year, there are not many folks out there, and its a long way to any type of services. If your familiar with it, and its what you want, go for it. I'd just hate to see someone sell all their stuff to move halfway around the world to find out they bought a property they really did not want to live on . Don't get me wrong, I own some pretty remote land in Az, but it has some trees and sits at 5000ft elevation so temps are a bit cooler, west Texas summer sun can scorch the hide right off of cattle

Kristi

[Frank S]

Frank, are you familiar with Hudspeth County? I drive through it a couple times a year, there are not many folks out there, and its a long way to any type of services. If your familiar with it, and its what you want, go for it. I'd just hate to see someone sell all their stuff to move halfway around the world to find out they bought a property they really did not want to live on . Don't get me wrong, I own some pretty remote land in Az, but it has some trees and sits at 5000ft elevation so temps are a bit cooler, west Texas summer sun can scorch the hide right off of cattle

Kristi

Thanks Kristi; But roamed about every section line, ranch road or oil right of way in  Hudspeth Pecos Culberson Jeff Davis Elpaso Persidio  Reeves Loving Ward Crockett Terrell Midland  Glascock Ector Reagan and others to the east of there for years I have several Retired Military and some, 3 letter company,  retired friends who own land in Culberson Hudspeth  Loving and Jeff Davis counties not many of them live out their or if they do you would never find them without a helicopter.
 Like I said we will most likely settle south of the farming area of Dell city or possibly cornudas or Van Horn
 One property I have been looking at is long and level enough for a 2300 ft runway  A little short for most planes but, A friend has an old bi plane crop duster with a 450 Hp Pratt Whitney.
 On an empty tank I would almost bet that it could take off in 10 times its length. Pure death trap and I watched him go almost vertical once on an 8  ft 4 blade prop. I've flown with him twice. !st & last all at the same time.

[SparWeb]

One property I have been looking at is long and level enough for a 2300 ft runway  A little short for most planes but...

With a half a mile available, you could build yourself a STOL kitplane like a Zenith 750, and fly complete circuits without crossing the property line.
As long as you're content flying only 100 mph, that is...

[Frank S]

Are you kidding, I know guys who could get a C130 off the ground in in half that distance with 60 combat troops on board Just strap on a few Jatos and clear 50 ft tall trees at the end of a 1500 ft runway made out of PSP
 But I'm not interested much in having a runway far too much work to maintain, now a landing pad is different as in chopper not rocket LOL 23000 parts 1 Jesus nut and 12 deciple bolts all having to work together but a STOVl powered rotor Gyro would not be bad either

 My main interest in the land in that area though is even though lots of folks own property there not many will ever even visit it let alone live on it. if you are not on the paved road you can go for months and not see a soul.
 Prefer the paved road though because it is difficult to entice trucking companies to pick up or deliver to a dirt road at times.

[Frank S]

Spar web back in the mid 70s I helped a Col build a bi plane he modified 2 Porsche engiens and mounted them on the wings then used belts up to  shafts mounted in the upper wing I was a strange looking contraption with 4 pops 2 pulling and 2 pushing I think it was a cut down version of he German AEG twin bi-plane but with the added push props

[SparWeb]

Yes I'll say that sounds strange-looking!

[Frank S]

I have put a few thing together for  if we decide to relocate
and have managed to reduce my stock of excess electrical appliances, to be sure the profit & loss column is going to be heavily weighted to the side of loss but that will be the nature of the beast there is still a pretty large quantity sitting in our show room to I could just about break even eventually
  I do however pretty much figure that we will be shipping 2 40 ft high cube containers anyway so this is an approximation of how they will wind up
 First off the destination will be nearly 400 miles from the nearest port, secondly the nearest crane services is 80 miles from the destination.
 this leaves me with at least 3 or 4 options
 #1 hire a shipper capable of handling from port to placement on the ground then later spot them where I want them and deal with them accordingly.
#2 hire a transport company and a crane company same end result except I could pre arrange the final placement in advance thus have the concrete foundation pedestals cast and waiting. this could become a logistical & a timing issue.
#3 arrange to purchase 2 chassis then hire the transporter to simply hook & drop this will mean having to deal with all of the TX DOT paperwork registration insurances and all the rest of the paperwork to own a couple of trailers and still later have to deal with placement. plus have to trailer chassis that I may not have further need for
#4 manufacture 8 corner jack devices ship 4 in the rear of each container along with enough cribbage or Jack stands to support the containers. that way any flat bed or low-bed or chassis trailer could haul them to the destination I could have a crew on site to spot in place then use the devices to lift the containers from their transport later the foundations and pedestals could be cast in place
 This boils down to: logistics, time ,costs / Time, costs, logistics / Costs, logistics, time / Logistics, costs, time/ Costs, time, logistics / Time logistics, costs each have the same things but different meanings.
one way to handle the containers

what I want to end up with

[Frank S]

Just a few things of the Retirement home project;
Description;  home workshop approximately 3000 sq. ft. with 1080 sq. ft. home built on mezzanine floor.
Utilizing 2 high cube 40 steel shipping containers mounted approximately 5 ft.  above ground floor level.
 Foundation for containers to be concrete piers with belled sub bases 
Foundation for walls to be cast in place concrete beam
Shop floor to be floating slab cast after construction completion.
Mezzanine floor to be ceramic tile overlaid on concrete supported by fabricated steel structure.
North and south walls to be tapered from base to top, 32 inches thick at base and 15 inches thick at top  constructed  with a combination of concrete blocks, cast in place concrete, cast in place earth-Crete  precast Earth-Crete blocks and steel reinforcement bars  clad in stone or  other weather resistant materials.
 East wall much the same as the North and South walls.
 West wall to be constructed primarily from commercial steel foam filled sandwich panels
 Roof; shall be foam filled sandwich panels over 10 inches of rock wool insulation
 Interior walls of living area shall be constructed of 16x8x6” thick lightweight gypsum/ concrete precast blocks wall cladding shall be 2” cement plaster.
The celling will be gypsum board with insulation above
 Electrical will be in conduit throughout.
The HVAC will be an environmentally stable system incorporating multiple methods.
 From the North outside wall there will be a water fall cascading over ceramic or glass  with air being circulated from behind the cascade of the water will cause evaporative cooling at the same time will serve to oxygenate the water which will return to a mote shaped  90,000 gallon pond extending around 3 sides of the building. The evaporation/ aeration unit will have condensation louvers to recover part to the moisture the mote will serve as one of the grow out, ponds for fish production. The air that is routed through a series of thermally conductive passages behind the evaporation unit will cycle throughout the living area serving as part of the cooling system  entering the living areas through resisters placed high up in the walls or the ceiling movement will be by fans mounted within the system .
 Heating will be done from a solar /air heat exchanger system mounted in the South outside wall the warm air will enter the living areas through registers mounted at base board level
 In summer or warm months the waste heated air will be used to run a sterling engine system providing additional cooling for the house

[spottrouble]

Frank
Your absolutely crazy, a Container Castle, I like it

Logistics of something like this can be a pain, I've probably thought up a 1000 different ways to get a home on my Az property, everything from building from Adobe dug onsite to buying a military 6x6 to haul materials to hiring a chopper to carry up a few shipping containers . When I bought the first 5 acres (12 years ago) it was 18 miles of rOuGh un-maintained dirt road, now its 13 miles unpaved, only the last 3 un-maintained, and supposedly 5 more miles will be paved soon. The last 3 miles (off the main road) will probably never be paved, and thats fine by me. As the years have passed many of my neighbors have sold out, I'm up to something like 80 acres now, its my ranch ! Eastern edge has views of the rim of the Grand Canyon in the distance, northern edge a part of the GCNP nobody knows about, western edge has views off 3000 ft high cliffs, southern edge is 1000's of acres of BLM land, its kind of an island in the sky . Technically closest town (very small) is only 3 miles away, you can see it from the cliffs, with a gyrocopter I could fly down and land in the parking lot of the grocery store, and make it back home in under 30 minutes .

Kristi

[Frank S]

Frank
Your absolutely crazy, a Container Castle, I like it

Kristi

To borrow a line from a song "I was born this way"

 I have an old 2 roll rolling press that was originally used for cold rolling 1" by 8" aluminum strips down to thinner strips the frame is made out of 4 " by 5 inch solid steel and it has a 20 Hp motor on it with a reduction gear box that weigh about 800 lbs the rollers can be opened to about 6" between them and closed all the way to Zero I plan to turn it on its side so I can place a hopper above the rolls with a conveyor belt below them then transport the material up to a rotary screen this will yield me any size aggregate that I need allowing me to make my own sand or gravel from the rocks on the property just a lottle portland and water and I will have some of the best earth-crete imaginable since the walls will be about 31" thick at the bottom I can have rocks up to 3 or even 4 inches reducing their size as the walls taper down to 15" at the top which will be about 25 feet high .
 Judging by what a geologist friend of mine has told me of the soils and rock in the area I can expect to have just about 1500 to 2500 PSI strength way more than adequate for a wall that doesn't have to support anything but its own weight
 For the foundation I will use a much more stable mix and the excavation
 will be sized accordingly, One problem was I had planned on a subterranean room but until I physically determine the difficulty in excavation that will have to be only a hope I don't relish having to hydra hammer through 10 ft of limestone cap-rock again like I've done in the past

[tecker]

Going to be ruff out there but this looks like a fine plan .