DC Genset with a Classic 150

[ChrisOlson]

Since I replaced one turbine with my new direct drive unit I decided to pull the generator off it and use it to build a 3 kW DC genset driven by a Honda GX160, and feeding 140-145 VDC power from the genset into a Classic 150 MPPT controller.  I'll program a wind turbine curve into the controller so I can run the genset at peak efficiency at any speed and output I want to, up to 3 kW.

This is the generator I'm using and the rotors on this thing are heavy:





The generator is going to be v-belt drive and run at 1,440 rpm with the engine speed at 3,600 rpm.  I will probably put a clutch on it so the engine can be started, then engage the clutch to get those two big flywheels turning gradually.

I got the base frame parts cut out for it - the generator will be 30" long x 18" wide x about 20" high with 8" wheels on it to wheel it around like a portable generator.  This is roughly the same size as a Honda EU3000, except it will be about 5" longer than the EU3000:



Originally I was going to use one of those ReDelco's, or a WindBlew, or a Renegade - or various other names these different outfits slap on converted Delco 10SI alternators.  But when I started looking at the specs (what I can glean from their mostly bogus data) they are pretty weak-kneed freakin' little units.  They don't have heavy enough windings in them to get any decent efficiency, meaning they would get hotter than the hubs of hell at 3 kW output.  And none of them make the right voltage (if you can even believe their voltage "curves" they publish for them).

So in the end I decided to use the big heavy ferrite magnet axial.  The big axial will run better than 90% efficient at 3 kw and it makes the right voltage at 1440 rpm, requiring only a 2.5:1 reduction belt drive, which is also easy to put a clutch on by using a simple belt tightener pulley.
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Chris

[Frank S]

Chris I am just wondering and you have probably already looked at this.
 I was looking at the torque curve of the little Honda and it is almost dead flat between 2250 & 2750 RPM, peaks at around 2500. What about taking advantage of the weight of those rotors as flywheels use a 2 to 1 reduction and govern the engine at just under 2900 RPM?
 My thoughts for this is lower engine noise possibly lower fuel consumption if properly timed
 longer engine life.
 The mass of the rotors should be more than enough to smooth out spike loads.
 And I am thinking that a 3KW  genset is going to be used mostly @ around 2.5KW or less.
 Like I said just a thought

http://www.auspowered.com/powered-by-honda/gx160.html

[Mary B]

Same engine I have on my NorthStar 2800 watt generator. Nice engine other than no electric start that I can find

[ChrisOlson]

Frank, there is no spike loads with battery charging.  This is like no other setup ever seen because with a Classic controller on it I have a dyno room and I can load that engine any way I want to by sitting in my office at my laptop, which is hooked to the Classics over wireless, and tweak the power curve.  Believe me, it's going to have to run at 3,600 rpm during bulk charging because I'm going to push that GX160 for everything it's got.

Once the bank gets to absorb stage where full power isn't need any longer, then I can start backing engine speed down because I don't need full power anymore.

Where this new generator is going is out by the solar arrays.  The solar panels don't work in the winter.  So I'm going to put in a generator plug on the solar combiner and plug this little generator into it on days when the solar panels are dead, and feed the high voltage DC from the generator thru the Classic for the solar panels.

Gas powered solar panels for days when the sun refuses to work.
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Chris

[madlabs]

Chris,

Funny, I had been thinking along the same lines after seeing your posts about a Classic and windmills. I am upgrading to 48V from 12V (I'm building the racks for my new array right now) and when I am done my Honda GX/Leece-Neville %%% alternator will no longer work.

What are you using for a gen head? The EM5000 that I used to build my current DC generator had a blown gen head or I would just rectify that.

Jonathan

[Frank S]

Sorry Chris I should have read the first post better the classic 150 should have been a dead give away for what you are planning on doing I don't have tendency to think batteries much. I should given my recent bout with my UPS, but since I'm not planning on being here many more months I just retired my shop PC for my laptop and plug in 1 of my big monitors a key board  a mouse the printers and plotters then go from there. The lap top is little girl with only 8GB of ram but the cards to up grade it to 16 or 24GB are not available over here

[ChrisOlson]

What are you using for a gen head? The EM5000 that I used to build my current DC generator had a blown gen head or I would just rectify that.

I'm using the big ferrite magnet 16 pole axial shown in the photos.  I'm going to drive it with a 2.5:1 reduction v-belt drive so the generator runs at 1,440 rpm.  My theory is that on poor days when the solar panels are only putting out 100-150 watts they are normally running at around 95-100 volts.  I can plug my DC genset into the solar combiner and bring it up to the proper speed so it matches the solar panel voltage and the controller will just think it's a dang big solar panel and I'll get 3.1 kW charging instead of only 100-150 watts.

At night when the sun goes down I can disconnect the solar panels with the breakers in the combiner so the voltage don't go too high and back feed them and feed 140 VDC from the genset into the controller with a wind curve loaded in it to optimize power output from the generator.

I'm thinking it might save some hours on the big genset in the winter time, and burn less fuel and be more efficient.  You have to pretty much tip a GX160 over and spill the gas out of it to get it use much gas.  I think the GX160 burns around 1 qt/hr at full load, and that big axial generator is about 93% efficient at 140 volts.
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Chris

[madlabs]

Oh, you mean the one in the big pictures? ;-0 Duh.

Anyway, any suggestions for a scroungable or (gasp) if I have to, one I could buy? Hands too full to try to make one. I just don't like the thought of using my 5kW Ac genny through the inverter's charger.

Jonathan

[ChrisOlson]

I searched and searched - no suitable permanent magnet generator heads that run at the proper voltage could I find for this project.  Except for one that was purpose built off one of my wind turbines.  You could take your chances with one of the ReDelco variations.  But I could not get a straight story on those from anybody that sells them, except for one guy (Mike's Windmills) and the windings were too light in his units for what I wanted for efficiency and power output to match the GX160.
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Chris

[Mary B]

My GX160 ran about 8 hours half load during the 4 day 4th of July power outage, fridge, freezer, TV, computer, few lights

[ChrisOlson]

Mary, that's called "your generator earnin' its keep"   
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Chris

[madlabs]

What about using a regular AC gen head, rectified? Alas, I can't see making a PMG like in your pic.

Jonathan

[Frank S]

What about using a regular AC gen head, rectified? Alas, I can't see making a PMG like in your pic.

Jonathan

I see Chris's point now, finding something that has been specifically built to put out the kind of voltages that his panels produce is going to mimic their output may be troublesome.
 one of these could I think, if you used a step up transformer before the rectifiers.

[ChrisOlson]

What about using a regular AC gen head, rectified? Alas, I can't see making a PMG like in your pic.

Theoretically it might work.  But those AC gen heads are not permanent magnet like my turbine generator.  They have an exciter winding and AVR with wound field so it might only work in a narrow voltage range.  Further, most of them are single phase with only two poles so the output is going to be really "dirty", which the input caps in the Classic is not going to be very impressed with.
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Chris

[madlabs]

I've seen that pic somewhere before. Why do I never find a pile like that?

Chris,

If I don't try to match my panel voltage and just use a relay to switch between panels and genny, that would be ok, voltage wise. And what if I tried to put some fat caps and high/low pass filter, think that might smooth it out enough for the Classic? If I start with a 220VAC two phase gen head that would be easier to smnooth out. Oh wait, taht would be too high voltage for my CLASSIC 150. Drat.

My only other option so far is to rewind the leece-neville 555 for 48V. I just don't have the machine tools and know how you have to pull off a PMG. And I shudder to think what you would have to charge to make one. Like they say, if ya have to ask, you can't afford it. :-0

Jonathan



Jonathan

[ChrisOlson]

If I start with a 220VAC two phase gen head that would be easier to smnooth out.

Besides the voltage issue, it is still single phase.  240V is just two 120V sine waves 180 degrees out of phase with one another.

I think I would get to rewinding the big Presolite for 48 volt.

mad - also don't forget that for 145 VDC you only need 104 VAC.
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Chris

[madlabs]

Yeah I can see it's a bad idea. No free lunch again. Grump.

Yeah, I guess the first stab will be rewinding the alt. I have been told that it can be rewired for wye or delta, I forget which and you can sorta use it if you up the RPMS. But it won't be able equalize. So I may have to rewind it but the thought makes me shudder. Plus I already want to switch to a smaller engine as I am using more gas than I need to when I run it. Who the heck decided that there are only 24 hours in a day and we have to sleep for 8 of them?

Jonathan

[ChrisOlson]

Who the heck decided that there are only 24 hours in a day and we have to sleep for 8 of them?

I thought it was you that decided that, because it wasn't me.  LOL!
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[snowmass]

 

[boB]

Snowmass....   Please tell us more about this generator guitar or whatever it is !!!

boB

[Frank S]

Wow! you wouldn't have wanted to let Pete Townshend to have gotten a hold of that

[snowmass]

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