Setting the Classic 150

[windy]

 Does anyone know if there is any software available to setup the Classic 150 using a laptop?
I can program it using the Midnite Graphical Interface Panel, but would like to use a laptop so I could program the controller from outside, while watching the windmill.
 I see that there is monitoring software on the Midnite solar website, but no setup software. Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks!
windy

[ChrisOlson]

The MidNite Local Status panel, besides monitoring and logging, also does quite a bit of the setup.  You have to go to the Config tab, enter the serial number of your controller, and then the Basic, Advanced and Tech sub-tabs will light up and become active.  You can even program the wind curve under the Tech tab and upload it to the controller.
--
Chris

[dgd]

The MidNite Local Status panel, besides monitoring and logging, also does quite a bit of the setup.  You have to go to the Config tab, enter the serial number of your controller, and then the Basic, Advanced and Tech sub-tabs will light up and become active.  You can even program the wind curve under the Tech tab and upload it to the controller.
--
Chris

l

The only setup/configuration interface is the MNGP display and its diddly rubber buttons. There is some (distant) hope that MNs 'local app' will provide more than a few battery setup facilities. The wind curve editor seems to be functioning but it fails to write properly to the Classic making it useless.
The MN local app is improving but agonisingly slowly. Its reporting is a mess and is it still suffers unexplained crashes.

MN apparently do not have the resources to sort these issues or implement the interface that should have been done when the Classic was in R&D - a web server interface. 
Now we have an excellent MPPT controller, probably the best available, but crippled with a seriously rubber  ducked (pun intended) user  interface and woefully inadequate software interface depending on a 35year old MODBUS variation that you can't get up-to-date documentation for.

all IMHO

dgd

[ChrisOlson]

There is some (distant) hope that MNs 'local app' will provide more than a few battery setup facilities. The wind curve editor seems to be functioning but it fails to write properly to the Classic making it useless.

Have none of the problems noted with it here, and I use it every day.  Perhaps you are running out-of-date firmware in the controller, or have not updated the Local App recently.  If you do or have updated to the latest release of the controller firmware, be sure to VMM it - there's some options now that are totally different than in the past and those don't appear in the menus correctly until you do a VMM.
--
Chris

[bart]

[woefully inadequate software interface depending on a 35year old MODBUS variation that you can't get up-to-date documentation for.]

   The Modbus RTU is one of the main reasons I bought the MN controller. It allows (or will when it gets wired) me to be able to integrate it in to the HVAC controls. Modbus is about the only cross supported communication protocol among certain manufacturers. Some Boilers, VFD drives, and HVAC controls (well one I know of) support Modbus.
You can but Modbus RTU Master/Slave PLC's if you want.
   The biggest complaint I have with most HVAC controls is their proprietary communication.
If you want to try a different Touch Screen HMI, made by Schneider Electric, here you go.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70008058#tab=overview

Gonna have to do your own programming, but the software is free on this model and that is rare on HMI's.
   Try here for more info: http://modbus.org/faq.php
   
     

[ChrisOlson]

The Schneider Conext XW-series inverters' communication protocol (Xanbus) is also Modus over CAN.  It's really nice - allows you to plug in system components and they all communicate with one another with no need for a "hub", aka Outback's system.
--
Chris

[dgd]

[woefully inadequate software interface depending on a 35year old MODBUS variation that you can't get up-to-date documentation for.]
   The Modbus RTU is one of the main reasons I bought the MN controller.

I bet there would a lot more happier Classic users if they could use a web browser to configure the Classic and see ongoing and archived data in a web page.

dgd

[halfcrazy]

This is the first I have heard of the wind curve editor being faulty? While I fully understand DGD is very unhappy with the Classic and Modbus, we used Modbus as it is the industry standard and everyone is being asked to use the same protocol.

We are more than happy to work out any kinks in the Local App we just need to know about them. Currently the Beta version of the App has everything you need to program the Classic except a couple little Warts that Andrew is going to get his nose into this week. Again please anyone with any real issues with the App please email me so I can address them Ryan at midnitesolar dot com

Ryan

[97fishmt]

That's cool.

I just have to come back online to this site and say that a complaint about a product and the folks that build the best stuff are right here to work it out.  Way to go. I've been on the fence about a classic, and with that kind of response, I'm going to get one.  I don't know if it will help me though because my alternator is closer to low  voltage rather than to higher.  But with these guys working on the future of wind I want to be part of it.

Thanks

Mike

[dgd]

This is the first I have heard of the wind curve editor being faulty? While I fully understand DGD is very unhappy with the Classic and Modbus, we used Modbus as it is the industry standard and everyone is being asked to use the same protocol.

I am very happy with my Classics, there is just nothing better available.. God Bless Midnite....

Modbus may be an industry standard (what industry?) but its a poor choice as  the software protocol  the Classic communiactes with. I have said before that the world standard for devices that provide performance data, reports and allow device configuration is a web browser. Especially so when the owners and users do not have expertise in electronics or computer software development.
However for those, like me, who consider modbus just too bloody awful to deal with, there is hope, Midnite have included a command line interface via the USB serial port  Yay!  This has saved the day as a RaspPi sucking data from the Classic can become the web interface (via Apache and a few HTML pages) the Classic should have been provided with.

dgd

[dgd]

This is the first I have heard of the wind curve editor being faulty?

hes

It editor works and writes to file and seems to update the Classic.   If the local app is stopped or crashes and you go back to the wind curve editor its the original that was in the Classic that is displayed.  I pointed out this error some time ago. I have not yet looked at .13 release to see if it is fixed.

dgd

[ChrisOlson]

Modbus may be an industry standard (what industry?) but its a poor choice as  the software protocol  the Classic communiactes with.

Modbus is a serial communications protocol originally published by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979 for use with its programmable logic controllers (PLCs). Simple and robust, it has since become a de facto standard communication protocol, and it is now a commonly available means of connecting industrial electronic devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus

Personally, with all the security problems and patches Apache has had over the years, from 1.X.X versions to today, plus PHP vulnerabilities, and lack of following standards in different web browsers - I think Modbus is the only logical choice for a device that needs to "just work".  The last thing we need in solar/wind/hydro controllers is to apply security patches to a freaking web server application in it.
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Chris

[dgd]

Modbus is a serial communications protocol originally published by Modicon (now Schneider Electric) in 1979 for use with its programmable logic controllers (PLCs). Simple and robust, it has since become a de facto standard communication protocol, and it is now a commonly available means of connecting industrial electronic devices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus

Yes, I was aware of the origins of Modbus. I had the pleasure of implementing modbus serial communications on an Intel 4040 cpu based controller in 1979. Simple and robust then, archaic and poor performance now on modern harware.
Note that it is a means of connecting industrial electronic devices  NOT a protocol for communicating with people.

,
Personally, with all the security problems and patches Apache has had over the years, from 1.X.X versions to today, plus PHP vulnerabilities, and lack of following standards in different web browsers - I think Modbus is the only logical choice for a device that needs to "just work".  The last thing we need in solar/wind/hydro controllers is to apply security patches to a freaking web server application in it.
--
Chris

ok but doesn't matter about Apache, there are many web server software systems available,
I agree about a device that just needs to work, a black box, the just needs to work part of the Classic does just that.
But it is marketed as a controller with the ability to provide reports to humans. Modbus doesn't do that or even facilitate intuitive  communications, a Web interface does. Its a no brainer.. IMHO 
My TV, DVD player, washing machine, home security system, garage door opener, wifi router, wifi bridges, cellphones, home entertainment centre, lighting control system and my Porsche 911  etc.. ALL have web interfaces to commmunicate with me.
 

dgd

[boB]

You need a computer to interpret communications data to humans, whether it is HTML
or modbus and a display monitor to view it so I'm not sure what the difference is ??

Now, I could see XML possibly being used to communicate settings and data back and forth
but that's not english either.  HTML and XML are both very inefficient at sending settings
and voltage etc.  All those "tags" take space and bandwidth unless they are compressed
first.  That is a big difference between HTML (web) and modbus...   Modbus can
be converted later and HTML has to be converted at the controller... So 6 or 1/2 dozen
of the other.

Modbus is the standard communications protocol being implemented by the solar industry
so that's why we picked it originally.  We are still going to have a web server inside
the Classic but an HTML web server is NOT as innocuous as you think it is for the
general public to use because general public has  problems setting up port
forwarding, etc. on their routers.

Gotta go boot up my old 1970s CP/M machine...   BTW, I think it boots up faster than my
windows 7 laptop !

boB

[dgd]

boB.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, and at the end of the day I am still a happy Classic user.
I just wish there was a more friendly interface to the Classic, it seems one of the first questions people have when they see the the ethernet port - 'Can I connect to it with my browser?'

No matter though 
At least someone here appreciated the MN response to my grumbling and decided to buy a Classic 

dgd

[boB]

Soooper, DgD !

It can only get better from here on in  I hope.

Trying to do that anyway.

BTW, looks like the daily log data reading bug is about at an end....  At least all the data is in order now.

boB