Gosh, now code means expensive.
"There's only one way to install solar to meet Code and that's the expensive way."
The code you refer to is similar to what is in operation here as well. They are minimum standards thats all.
They do not tell you how to design a system, they do not tell you what you must buy, they do not help you in any way to design a system. They are minimum standard guidelines. You may do anything you like within those guidelines.
CE and UL listed .... whats your point.
"The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is UL 1741, "Inverters, Converters, Controllers and Interconnection System Equipment for Use with Distributed Energy Resources." ( from UL) Notice, they don't test the equipment for how it works in most instances, but for safety... simply safety
That does not mean expensive.
UL: panels for 70c/watt in quantity.... where is expensive. UL inverter 6000w cont 18000 watt surge, capable of reverse grid tie , ups operation inverter battery charging all incorporated for less then 800 dollars delivered to an island in the middle of no place weighing over 50kg........................ where is expensive.... even your inverter is not capable of that.
"When you start wiring up a 20 kW array, have you priced 10 AWG USE-2 cable, MC4 connectors and combiners lately"
Yes, the MC4 are 100 pair for $80 (TUV cert) but the panels come with them anyway... you don't need that many more.
Combiners?? I think you mean MC4 parallel plugs....... wouldn't use them. Series the array up to 400vdc-500vdc.
Why use 10 awg cable? thats poor. Go Low Voltage (not Extra Low Voltage), and run solar grid tie cable for about 2 dollars/meter . where is the big dollars in this?... oh but your inverter is not capable of reverse grid tie is it?..... another buying choice that may be overhauled soon.
Aluminium rails hardly big deal 100 dollars/kw kits.
Use grid tie inverters for the inter-tie ( last bought 18000 watts for 1000 inc shipping... 12x1.5kw about 40kg each) UL CEC TUV etc.
Where is the extra 20 grand.
You would have a better day time system with this technology. All loads driven by the grid tie inverters, battery charging done by the main inverter as required. If you want to go glitz, use the SMA inverters with the frequency shift technology, then you need no other gear, as it does it all... but a bit more expense where cheaper inverter like mine with a plc to control switching in of the grid ties will do the same.
All easy to buy, install and do to code.... and radically different to your system. There is obviously more than only one way to wire to code.."There's only one way to install solar to meet Code and that's the expensive way." ......... thats as stupid as it gets.
The code is a safety framework, it does not control design, only sets the standard that may not be gone below. It is not a shopping list, but does prescribe what are the minimum standards for the products you may chose ( UL etc). It needs to use UL listed goods so that the purveyors of the code don't need to test each item in the system for safety..... NOT performance.
It will give you min wire size. Insulation parameters for the voltage envisaged. But in reality if you use UL parts, it is simple and minimum wiring sizes for UL cable with UL fittings and insulation...... well your good to go get the electrician to wire it you as you want. Then just the MEN earth system, and then lightning protection... which is fairly adumbrate over here and usually just means MOV's and a few other bits.
Code does not mean expensive.. it means safe. Your going to provide everything anyway, so just keep with UL products, and stay within the code... which with the Chinese help, is not expensive. A huge amount of their gear is certified now.
Solar in quantity is in the 70 cent range/watt.
Cheap, does not mean cobbled together. Thats just stupid.
"Car PWM? There's no inspector that I've ever met that will sign off on something like that."....have you ever asked?
Car PWM is very likely certified now, as they are in fork lifts and vehicles that connect to the grid for charging.
Because of their control of a vehicle, I would think UL would be mandatory over there as here.So if they are UL, and performing high power DC switching, and the wiring is to code size and installation, why would he not pass it. They are not involved in performance just safety.... mostly the same as UL.
UL does not mean expensive, just that someone had it tested and it passed the safety tests.
"So let's not start with pie-in-the-sky ideas like pumping water uphill with it for micro-hydro"
Well that was just a passing thought, but in reality we have that in place. We use the 50000ltrs/day at 110psi or so just to water cows, If we had no cows, we could bung on a turbine and be good to go.... it it is reality now..... it is not the pie in the sky ......it's here, I have just not thought to put a turbine on it.... where is the big deal.
Over there in your snow cave, I can see freezing up would be the problem, but here it would be fine. We are moving towards 500000 liter storage soon, and that could certainly have a useful turbine attached as an after thought... Some weeks there are no cows, so fill the dam.......but there is no house within 5kms.... so that makes it not practical, but certainly not pie in the sky. It could be done today, and if we had 15kw spare capacity, near the house with a hill, it would be super worth while. No hill close by here, but other folks may have.... not pie in the sky, it is done commercially.
"or telling people they can wire it into some batteries with extension cords and toggle switches.".. your words not mine.
Your so one eyed that your system is the only system (even though it changes to the newest best system on a monthly basis), and the only sensible way of doing things, you lose sight of what is really happening. Your lack of electronics probably hinders you having scope for more thoughtful approaches to problems as you can only see whats in front of you to buy from the purveyors of goodies you know.... hence all your half baked systems to date, I dream up of how it might work, and find products to make it happen ( if I don't build a prototype first)
Your latest system is very nice and looks the goods....... but not what I would aspire to. Reverse grid tie is a better more flexible way to go. You will probably get there sooner or later when one of your favorite companies offers the reverse grid tie in their product, and you'll get one and come bouncing in here telling us it the latest great thing for load shedding, power surges, relieving the stress off the inverter most of the day, save starting the backup for excessive power usage etc...
I reject your critique out of hand, as light on knowledge, big on prejudice. UL does not mean better, only that it passes minimum standards as tested at the United Laboratories. Code just means doing it to standard.. nothing extra expensive with that.. where is the extra $20000 if you have any idea of what is required and what is needed.
..............oztules
