yet another hydrogen source

[bob golding]

saw this on another forum. sounds good.

http://scienceblog.com/62111/game-changer-in-alternatve-energy/

anyone got any more info on it?

[electrondady1]

lots of hydrogen in there.
i don't know why they always have to suggest fuel cells as the only way to utilized hydrogen , internal combustion and  gas turbines can run on the stuff as well

[vtpeaknik]

"Even more appealing, this reaction occurs at low temperatures, generating hydrogen energy that is greater than the chemical energy stored in xylose and the polyphosphate. This results in an energy efficiency of more than 100 percent — a net energy gain."

Yeah right.  Yawn.

[dbcollen]

yeah, I stopped reading when I came to that.

[bob golding]

it could just be bad reporting, or it could be another free energy scam. more info than one reporters re right is needed.

[XeonPony]

It takes 2 ATP to generate 34 ATP molecules in the mitochondria in crebs cycle.

In biology it is oft the case, it isn't over unity it is just really damned efficient.

[keithturtle]

i don't know why they always have to suggest fuel cells as the only way to utilized hydrogen , internal combustion and  gas turbines can run on the stuff as well

Probably because fuel cells use it much more efficiently, not near the heat losses.

But if H2 can produced cheaply, who cares?   I already have an internal combustion engine; converting has to be cheaper than a platinum filled fuel cell capable of putting out lots of kW, right?

Turtle

[bob golding]

i don't know why they always have to suggest fuel cells as the only way to utilized hydrogen , internal combustion and  gas turbines can run on the stuff as well

Probably because fuel cells use it much more efficiently, not near the heat losses.

But if H2 can produced cheaply, who cares?   I already have an internal combustion engine; converting has to be cheaper than a platinum filled fuel cell capable of putting out lots of kW, right?

Turtle

the platinum is to the catch. think there are other materials that can be used. less effeicent maybe but  you have to look at the cycle from digging it out of the ground to recycling it. there seems to be enough platinum to charge catalytic converters so that can all be reused, but there is limited platinum still in the ground. you stil have the sticky issue of mining it in countries where they tend to shoot the miners though.
as regards the original article i think what they meant by "more than 100%" was you get more energy out than you put in to create the enzymes. that's my take on it anyway.

[Bruce S]

It took me several times to read and re-read the article to try and decide where they were getting the more than 100% return.
It finally made sense.
He's taking a simple sugar that can be obtained easily using manufactured enzymes ( which even Beer and Wine people do) adding a ploy-P and getting a 3 fold increase production of H2.
Okay , east enough to understand. The world of Fuel-Grade Alky has been doing this for a long time and to this day people still point to old studies showing that it uses more.
It'll certainly be interesting to follow this and see how it progresses.
I'd be interested it how high a grade the H2 is, they mentioned PM grade. Which is pretty high grade, a 3fold grade higher than H2 into I.C.E. powered engines.
Thanks for the link!
Bruce S