PuttingUpAWinchargerTowerWithACraneOrPieceByPiece?

[doubledipsoon]

Now that all the warped cross-menbers of my 1959 Wincharger Tower have been replaced with angle iron, and almost completely assembled on the ground, now comes the real fun part- but should I throw in the towel and hire a crane or should I do it the real fun way- piece by piece all the way to the top. Am I out of my mind for thinking that I can do it this way? It's only 43 feet tall, 92" at the base, and just an erector set for adults. Hell, I'm ready to do the wooden struts to lean up the legs onto and build up as I go. Any takers, or are you too tame to tackle it head on?

[fabricator]

Put a gin pole on it.

[dbcollen]

is your space bar broken?

[Frank S]

 I agree with Fab; 3 legged lattice towers stand easy with a gin pole

[just-doug]

brace the legs,hinge it ,and then gin pole it

[Mary B]

Hinge it, we used to raise and lower the one at the farm with the bucket on the tractor pushing against it.

[doubledipsoon]

Thanks for all the replies- I don't know what a "space bar" is.....Yeah, the gin pole method will definitely be used. I pulled out a bunch of "Wind Power Digest" magazines from the late '70's with articles from  Michael Hackleman and Windy Dankoff, if you remember....I think it's going to be a real creative project starting with building the bottom 13 feet upright, balancing it, and lining up the bottom anchors. From there it's piece by piece with a self-fabricated gin pole.....I'm putting a Sencenbaugh 1000-14 on it- it has three 6' real wooden blades, Sitka spruce, 3 to 1 gearbox, and red-lines at only 290 RPM with a off-set tail that governs at 23 MPH, a real beauty. I found only one picture of one off Google Image. Check it out....Joe   

[dbcollen]

a space bar is the wide key at the bottom of your keyboard, since you don't know what one is, that explains the lack of its use in your title.
In the english language (and most others) you push it once at the end of a word, before starting the next one.
 

[AzSun]

Years ago I pulled up a 3 leg, 38 ft. tower with a 72 Ford Pinto. I dug the holes first, kept the legs at the base short so they do not bend, and bolted on extensions after the tower was set over the holes.  With guide ropes in place, drop a plumb bob from the top of the tower and level tower until the plumb bob is centered within the triangle base. When all is set, fill the holes with concrete. If your soil permits it, dig the holes cone shaped so the hole is smaller at the top than the base. The helps prevent the tower from trying to pull the footings out of the ground. 

[doubledipsoon]

Hey, dbcollen, that's why I love forums so much- you can be talkin' about wind generators in detail, and then someone like you brings up something totally UNRELATED. It just goes back to my theory on humans in general- don't expect too much from anyone about anything if you want to make any real progress.  To prove my point, I'll demonstrate how your complaint is about to backfire in your face.. ..........If you're so concerned about putting spaces where you think they need to be, then why don't you put a space between "cb" and "collen"? See what I mean?

[doubledipsoon]

AzSun, I love it! Reminds me of the good old days when you didn't have to worry about crashing a tower. If I had a nice tractor with a compound low, a flat area to do it, a few friends I could really trust, an ultra strong gin pole, and some experience, I'd give it a shot. Unfortunately I'm on a hill, and am leaning towards the piece by piece method, where you have full control (or at least the perception of it).

[dbcollen]

To prove my point, I'll demonstrate how your complaint is about to backfire in your face.. ..........If you're so concerned about putting spaces where you think they need to be, then why don't you put a space between "cb" and "collen"? See what I mean?

There is quite a bit of difference between a screen name and writing a whole sentence without spaces. and by the way it is "DB"
I learned as a young man that when asking for people for help or advice, that you should not to look ignorant, Which means following simple gramatical rules among other things.

[Flux]

There are two ways to use a gin pole.

I think you are thinking of the method to lift each section to build it as you go.

The others are referring to a large gin pole at right angles to the tower so that you can lift it by pulling a rope by vehicle or winch. The gin pole provides the moment to get it moving from the horizontal. Two of the legs will be hinged with this scheme.

Flux

[doubledipsoon]

DB, look up "cognitive dissonance". It's a unconscious disorder in which the subject states a precept, then completely disregards what one says. I see "dbcollen" in your last entry without a space (strike one), a gramatically incorrest capital "W" on "whether" in your last sentence (strike 2), and my letterhead title is not a "sentence" as you say, it's a "fragment", as it doesn't have a verb (strike three).....You're out! Now look who's ignorant?

[DamonHD]

Ease up please.

I want to remain one of the few grammar nazis round here, thanks.

Please *do* put sensible spacing in titles: I may remove another RunTogetherTitle entirely next time.

There is no point in deliberately writing stuff here that's hard (or excessively annoying) for others to read.

Rgds

Damon

[Bruce S]

---GM MODE---

Yes, as another moderator that is getting requests to lock this thread, please get back to the subject at hand.
None here are perfect, let's leave it that way and get on with the subject.
Thanks
Bruce S

[doubledipsoon]

AzSun, My three holes for the anchors are 7 feet deep and about 30" in diameter. Unfortunately, the guy who did the work had a 30" auger, and I figured I'd have to figure out a way to refigure the cylindrical holes so that they're wider on the bottom than the top, as you suggested. Any way to do this, other than using a 10 foot breaker bar and hassling with it for a couple days? And how the heck am I going to get the dirt out from the bottom of the holes?! And yes, I'm tickled pink to get back to the subject!

[Frank S]

I am one of those who when ever possible suggests belled or under reamed holes probably because I used to manufacture foundation tooling augers clean out buckets core barrels and 3 diameter undercut bell reamers. for several foundation rig manufactures and end users as well.
 But trying to do this by hand without the drill rig is almost always next to impossible
 One thing that can be done on a 3 legged tower that greatly enhances its footing tooth when feasible is   to slab tie the 3 holes together at the top with a 6 to 8 in slab tied with plenty of steel.
 4 leg towers have an advantage that no matter which way the wind blows at least  2 legs are ballast  3 leg towers have 1  most of the time but with the addition of a slab you not only have the weight of the slab but the columns now act like the roots of a tooth

[AzSun]

AzSun, My three holes for the anchors are 7 feet deep and about 30" in diameter. Unfortunately, the guy who did the work had a 30" auger, and I figured I'd have to figure out a way to refigure the cylindrical holes so that they're wider on the bottom than the top, as you suggested. Any way to do this, other than using a 10 foot breaker bar and hassling with it for a couple days? And how the heck am I going to get the dirt out from the bottom of the holes?! And yes, I'm tickled pink to get back to the subject!

If the holes are filled with concrete, your tower will be well anchored. My holes were tapered and only 48 inches deep. I had a 2KW generator on a 38 ft. tower driven by a 12 ft. prop. Even in the worst of winds, the footings did not move at all.

[Frank S]

 3 holes 30" in dia and about 7 ft deep will be close to 15,000 lbs of concrete
 this 45 ft tower has 30" holes  @8 ft deep supporting a minor high tension line in a desert wind zone area where the winds regularly hit  65 MPH about 30 ms

[doubledipsoon]

AzSun, Frank S. thanks for the input- I've reached an impasse brainstorming on this hole tapering. One consolation is that my wind generator swings out of the wind at 23 mph, eliminating excessive wind shear putting less stress on the tower, but I'm not an engineer. Some of Hackleman's/Wind Power Digest articles suggest doing 4 foot holes, so my 7 footers should do the job. I've got a few more weeks until it happens, so.... if you get any more revelations, let me know...

[kitestrings]

J,

Looks like your making good progress.  Here's the actually unit.  Stiill produng good power, thought the blades need work and you'll want to check bearings.




You'll not that the mounting system in the early units Jim did were as in your photo, but then he went to a 4-hole horizontal plate (~12" dia) that mates to the tower top plate with leveling bolts.  That is what this unit has.  I'll send you a print.

On the install, you got some good advice & options on setting the tower -

For setting the machine, we've used a small light-weight alum gin pole like that used for erecting guyed sections.  Neilho put a larger diameter pulley on ours, but if you keep it in pieces for the lift and have the tower person assist on the heaviest lift it is very doable.  The heaviest lift is the alterator/gearbox.  Then you can separtely lift the tail-boom/vane, and blades & spinner.

best,

~kitestrings