Getting ready to move off the grid for 5 mths

[zingarofunkart]

Ive got my two battery/inverter packs a 400 and a 600, HOnda 2000 genset and im ready to buy some lights. Should I use 12 v led or go with the 110 v and the inverter on my batt packs.

Stated differently: will I lose electrical potential using the inverters for lights as opposed to direct current?

From my other posts im figurin` its ok to charge my batt packs with my gen set via  the 12 v. In the past ive rigged a cable using a regular extension just twisting one of the blades 90 degrees. Not fancy nor oem but worked fine. Now im wondering to reduce the load if I go from the genset to a splitter ( cig two into one) then I could use the gen set and the cig to cig plugs for both batt packs and charge them both at the same time.

I really appreciate all the time the other members have used to provide some valued info... thx again ....z

[tanner0441]

Hi

The genset will only give a few amps so it is a very expensive way of charging batteries even assuming it is an inverter genset with smart throttle.

You don't say the size of your battery packs or if the inverters are pure or modified sinewave, and I assume 400 and 600 is the wattage rating, but again it is an expensive way of running lights if your only source of power is the genset.

You don't say whether you have any other way of charging the batteries ie, solar or wind.

If all you want is a few lights then I would run straight from the batteries I have a kiddies play house I build in my garden and that is lit with 12V LED arrays and a strip of LEDs you cut from a roll in multiple of threes and there is enough light to read comfortably by, they are fed from a 20Ah battery and 15W of solar.

You will have to provide more information of what you have and intend to do with it.

Brian

[madlabs]

As Brian noted above, we need to know more.  But for sure the genset 12V charger will be super slow and waste lots of fuel. You need a charger that can output the amp hour rating of the battery bank / 10. So if you had a 220 amp hour bank, you'd be looking for a 22 amp charger. It's no good having a battery bank if you can't keep it charged.

As to lights, if you get 12V LED or florescents, they will be most efficient. However, 120VAC florescent would be more efficient than incandescent 12V bulbs.

More data = better answers.

Jonathan

[zingarofunkart]

I think both battery packs have a 26 amp hr agm battery. I didn't know if I needed to use the 12 v cig plug to run 12 v lites or invert it to 110 for led lites. E bay has a variety of leds for under five a piece. Microwave and coffeepot will run off the genset and ill shower at the local gym

[zingarofunkart]

update to my battery packs.
I may be catchin on to the battery stuff or I could be walkin the other way on the treadmill.

So now to extend the life of the battery pack im wanting to hook up the battery cables from the pack to a deep cycle probably flooded. So will the battery (external) feed back into the power pack to the inverter?? and will the 110v transformer charge both batterys? It may be asking a lot of the transformer as it gets pretty warm during the charge cycle.
OK ive got battery chargers: so any harm in hooking a battery charger up to the deep cycle flooded battery (with the Honda genset)  while hooked up to the Duracell BP? will it charge both deep and the agm?
O and a side note. solar is out period... z

[Simen]

Now, why would solar be out?!

Solar are never out. Even a small panel positioned in the window would help...

[zingarofunkart]

Id like to explain my situation but cant.
There are no windows.
Solar is out because of security
What do you think of my battery pack setup??
will it work??
thx, z

[OperaHouse]

I think your battery packs will be destroyed in five months.

[tanner0441]

Hi

That battery  pack you keep posting pictures of is deigned to start engines or run a light in an emergency, not run as deep cycle for weeks on end. It will die very quickly.  The little charger that came with it will top it up after brief battery use, I would not give much for its chances keeping a heavily discharged battery fully charged. Plus when you load the battery that load will also go on to the charger.

What your trying to do requires a good battery pack with the proper means of charging. I still can't understand why you can't put solar on the roof if you can run a generator for long periods of time outside. I have a copy of a 2KW Honda inverter generator, and it only runs for about 5 hours on a tank full with any load on it.

You need to do a complete inventory of what you want to run and what the total electrical load. yor last post mentioned coffee pots and microwaves.  Even on the genset an 800W microwave is going to pull the best part of 1400W from the generator, coffee pot up to 2KW. Your genset is going to be working very hard most of the time with very little surplus capacity, and nothing to fall back on if you have a problem. You still didn't say what type of inverter you are looking at.

I think a lot more homework, reading, and preparation are required.

Brian.

 

[zingarofunkart]

Im just searchin for info: a little info on me. In 04 I sold my last house and lived in the white van, full time, then went to the Honda element in 05, full time, 07, full time, 09, full time. Over a 100k on um all. the Canadian border in the summer and the south in the winter. I just ran an inverter and a deepcycle battery ( used it for starting too) I now live at a campground for 7 mths and it closes for 5. Im trying to stay off the road and just add a little creature comforts. Im just searchin for tech info. I don't need any other help with lifestyle issues. O and im a disabled viet combat vet.. but that's not the issue, either ..

[XeonPony]

compfert is easy, making a small light on the wallet system is easy, but the stuff you been buying sorry to say is garbage.

Solar is very secure, all depends on how you mount it, a good quality standered marine hybrid will last a good while with the right suport.

when I have more time, and if you post bit more detail I am sure all of us can make a very good system for ya, but please get the idea those useles consumer things will do any thing you want, I've seen hundreds of them and all ways a crap battery!

[tanner0441]

Hi

One quick comment:  What is wrong with solar on the roof of your van, and the batteries down in the passenger footwell? A lead from the van to what ever it is your going to live in.

Brian.

[dnix71]

If you live in your vehicle, then go to a car stereo shop and have them install a large deep cycle marine battery in the back with a battery isolator. You can safely run you gear from the deep cycle without draining the starting battery. When you start the vehicle the alternator will recharge both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_isolator

Car stereo shops add auxillary batteries with isolators so miscreants with booming car stereos won't kill the main battery while running their oversized amps.

Solar panel battery maintainers plug in the dash outlet and rest on the dash. They do not need to be outside the vehicle.

[Bruce S]

Checking to see if you have done anything with this since the last postings?

[zingarofunkart]

Im working on getting a pic of my battery setup. So far im pleased with the performance. I did learn that in building its better to use a jigsaw to cut wood than a skilsaw as you can start the jigsaw with the battery pack vs having to run the genny to use the skilsaw.
New question ?? the owners manuel states not to run a load while charging the battery pack??
Besides the small ac transformer ive got a standard 6 amp and a one amp charger and it seems to recharge the battery pack in a short time vs the ac transformer that takes forever. Im forseeing using the battery packs in an always undercharged state as the most expensive elect current comes from the genset.
SO HERES THE QUESTIONs:? (the pic would help explain but ive not got it yet) CAn I run my 6 amp battery charger at the same time im using the ac transformer>>?? and whats the problem, if any with using the inverter, from the battery pack WHILE in the charging mode.
I have found much useful info browsing other areas of the forum.
thx in advance.........               z

[tanner0441]

Hi

You still don't say what inverter your using, or its continuous rated output, what quiescent current it draws. The reason your advised not to load the battery while using the little supplied charger is because the little supplied charger is only designed to top the battery up after a brief use, not supply extra loads. The 6 amp charger at 12 volts will supply 72 watts so as long as your total load, charging the battery and supplying extra power to what ever you have connected to the battery does not exceed 72 watts then you should be OK, but is your 6 amp charger continuously rated?

You say you will run your batteries in a continuously part discharged state. You will kill them.

You now, for the first time, mention jigsaws and Skillsaws. In one of my earlier replies to you I said you need to do a complete inventory of what your worst case load will be. So far we haven't seen any figures, and what ever that figure is you need at least 50% more surplus power.

If you seriously expect people to help you have to tell them what you have and what you intend to do. I am not trying to Pee on your parade but people need all the information together not in dribs and drabs....

Brian

[XeonPony]

I am seconding tanner here, either you want a real system or you want to keep up with the short lived garbage, these are the only two options, the real system will cost more at first but it will last longer then you!

My system hasn't been tweaked since it has been built and has suplied perfect reliable energy since it was constructed 1 year it has been online, befor the previous 4 years was my starter system and it too performed well enough. Point? I am too poor to build it cheap! and I am guesing you're in the same boat

So data, lots and lots of data, we need it.

[zingarofunkart]

the title of the post says it all "5 MONTHS" heres the setup so far. the xantrex is 3 yr old and has sustained abuse in recharging but still keeps ticking.  the other stuff is new and besides those inverters ive a 1000 and a 2000  2 27 dc Duracell wet cell + I just acquired the small 6 v 12 ah batterys from some emergency lights. ive ordered some g4 leds to replace the halogen bulbs and gonna recycle the lights somehow.
Charging comes from the 6 amp and a 1 amp and the Honda 2000has 8

?? is it ok to leave the charger hooked up to the battery when the charger is unplugged?

Without a smart charger you have to disconnect the charger to check the open circuit voltage for soc... if correct how long do you wait??

second pic is the emergency lights I picked up at the flea, NIB for 3 dollars each I have 6 with more on the way. I don't understand the circuitry but the batterys and the lamp holders are super I just hope that led bulb will fit in place of the halogen. Specs say the halogen will run 90 minutes on the 6 so im hoping for 180 on the 3 wt with 12 v .. ..

[zingarofunkart]

Ive been shopping for a smart charger but so far the 6 and 1 amp are doing fairly well although im not there full time yet. Im wondering how long can the charger cable be from the Honda 2000 to the battery bank to net the 8 amps it will deliver or is it just as well to use the 110v ac to run the 6 amp ac charger. The distance from genset to battery bank would be over 35`. Could I use a regular extension cord (probably #12 or 14 wire) you can just bend one metal male contact 90 degrees to fit the genset outlet.
O and my power usage will primarily be lights. the 750 wt coffee pot will run off the 1000 w inverter or the genset.. the 700 wt microwave will run off the 2000 wt inverter or the genset.
Ive got a 700 wt oil filled heater painted black to soak up the sun will run off the genset while the charger is in 6 amp mode, but the primary heat source will be propane. Im still researching the storage capacity of the oil filled heater. Id only use it when the genset was in operation and just wasting energy because of a light load..

[Bruce S]

AS I have watched people try to assist you, you're still not actually answering their questions.
You say primarily lights, but what are the specs of the lights ? regular 100watt lights? CFLs? LEDs? how long will they be on?
These are very necessary questions to give you the correct answers.
The title does not say it at all it merely says off grid for 5 months.
As a fellow Disabled Vet, I know you can answer questions better than this. The DI's would have taught you that long ago, I went through basic back when they could still take a troop "out back" and 4 cigs were in each C-rat pack.
AND I know the Vietnam vets I help (older brother included RIP) would be better at answering questions than what you're giving.
Get the loads of all the stuff you want to power, how long you want to power them and come back with that information.

[tanner0441]

Hi

Your charger is six amps....... That is 72 watts...... Your coffee pot is 700 Watts. Your microwave is 700 Watts, a 700 Watt microwave will pull over 1000 Watts from the inverter. Oh! and just to run with no load on the inverter will take something.

You do the sums....

Brian

[Simen]

Running the coffee pot for 5 minutes would draw around 60Wh, the micro would draw 84Wh for the same amount of time. He'll need to run the gen a couple of hours to compensate for a lovely meal and a nice coffee afterwards.

[tanner0441]

Hi

He won't cook much of a meal in five minutes with a 700 W microwave, heat a can of soup or beans.

Looking at your photograph the only batteries that look anything like suitable are the two black ones at the bottom of your rack, and that is assuming they are deep cycle. Instead of the Duracell crap another two of the black batteries would have been a better investment.

If you can get suitable LED inserts for the halogen fittings you could run them from the little blue batteries as a stand alone lighting system, depending on total load, and your little charger would keep them topped up. Also are there transformers in the back of the halogen fittings? If so they will need removing.

For anything that is connected to the inverters I would want 20 - 25 Amps minimum from the charger, and that would need to be charging far longer than your inverter is running.

You say solar and wind are out so all your power will be coming from the generator, your batteries are only storage not the source of your power.

Brian

[XeonPony]

for the lack of info I will just lay out my system, you can figure out how to mod it for your needs

8* 6V golf cart batteries series perallel. (I started off with just 2 and they held my 14 footers load fine, a fridge, lights, a tv and 12v dvd player) they all feed into a colector box with 8awg cut to the mm in same lengths

 200Amp fuse > 2AWG 2feet > Inverter 1800w w/transfer switch

from the colector box 0/1 guage to solar charger and load hub, solar charger is 2awg, load is fed with 6 guage both legnths are 5 feet

Solar charger is a Tristar Mppt 60 connected to a 540w array (Powers great in summer but due to furnace not quite enough during winter)

Now those batteries power a 30 foot trailer for 6 days with lights (Flourescent and led) my computer, furnace, microwave, coffee pot and more.

The generator is 50 feet away remote start via 10awg and conects to the inverter via twist lock, the battery charger is 40Amps, if the batteries are low it takes a full day to charge with the genset.

For you, 2 high quality golf cart batteries, idealy 4 or get rid of the microwave or coffe pot, I recomend ditching the coffee pot and do it the old fassioned way, boil water in kettle then pour over the goffe grounds in a filter, worked better imo.

Inverter you want good 2 guage wire short as possible, forget about 6Amps barely keep up with the battery, they're garbage! you need nothing smaller then 20Amps

the genset feeding A/C 14 to 10guage will be fine, given your budget and energy draw I'd say 12 guage will be plenty good enough

In short 2*6v golfcart batteries (4 ideal),
20Amp or better charger (40Amp recomended)
50foot 12 or 10AWG extension cord
good french press or stove top kettle and a nice filter basket for making coffee
Go to Superbright LEDs.com or ebay and get LED bulbs for the fixtures, or get the puck lights!
And some fuses 200amp slow blow for the inverter, (Conect a 300A between the batteries) and then a fuse pannel with the standerd 15A circuits (Burning to death really wrecks the rest of your life!)
toss the little batteries and the light packs keep the fixtures.

And either get a Bogart trimetric for an RV will cost ya aqbout 200 or less or a very good expanded volt meter (Volt meter the least usefull but better then nothing) as this will allow you to run the genset when only needed and allow you to use power in a wiser fassion

Now to the solar! a single 250W pannel is small enough to handle along, hard but able to, so you can go with two 130w pannels to make it easier, this will allow you to run with virtualy never needing the gen set, at Sunlec you can get stick on 130w pannels for under 200 dollars! but run for a bit with just the gen set and batteris till you figure out what you need.

the whole thing when assembled properly will barely take up any more room then the current set up, infact if you took a day possioning it all it would be smaller!

[XeonPony]

and when you end up going through canada let me know if possible stop by and get your set up seriously cleaned up as that is a death trap IMO atm I'll do it purely at cost and depending on my state may well be 0 as I keep allot of scrap wiring and stuff on hand for such projects