Author Topic: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel  (Read 31381 times)

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captainward

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CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« on: February 10, 2014, 05:17:35 PM »
Hello All, Well here are the pictures of the new Fisher and Paykel  washing machine motor I have in my shop. I have ordered the shaft will be her in a few days.
I know I must machine some bearing holders and get some bearings I am wondering if anybody has done this build for a vawt and could send me some pictures so I can do the build??

THANKS FOR L@@KING AND RESPONDING.


captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »
Well I found the site I needed The backshed I think its Australian it had tons of info on vawt and building the bearing assembly for my vawt. so I got on the Lathe and carved out this so far today more pictures to come as I move along.  THANKS FOR L@@KING.... SEE YA NEXT TIME  :o)

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 03:14:17 PM »
Here is the photos for today did some milling and drilling and tapping.  :O)

hiker

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 04:21:36 PM »
nice...........what size of cutting bits do you use ?  ive looked all over this town and theirs none to be had !
mine takes i belive a 1/4 " bit....been awhile sence ive used it..i could use a few new ones if you know a source..........
WILD in ALASKA

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 08:13:57 PM »
I wonder if littlemachinmeshop.com L.A. area would have 1/4 inch cutting tools. they would know anyway.
I use 3/8 cutting tools on my 9x20 hf lathe ( completely modified).

Smithson

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 10:15:38 PM »
I buy those 1/4 inch cutting tools at travers tool.  You can request a huge catalog.

Captainward.   I'm curious.  They didn't supply the axle with those motors?  Also are you using the two as a dual alternator?     Arch

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 10:04:22 AM »
You can get lathe tool bits from mcmaster.com huge online catalog, fast shipping all over the world,
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 01:33:04 PM »
Hi Smithson, No I did not get the axle but one is in the mail an additional 60.00 bucks but the smart drive was only 60 for the three pieces.  and yes this is a single application motor.
It will be mounted to a vertical shaft  vawt.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 08:11:11 PM »
Here are some updates notice that I cut the aluminum hub in half and machined them to fit inside the new 3" steel pipe I bought.

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 08:40:02 PM »
Nice looking machine work.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 02:23:57 AM »
Fabricator  Thanks for your thoughts....:O) :)


I am waiting for the bearings and will bore the aluminum recess's for them next but I still need that nut for the shaft.

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 08:37:26 AM »
Do you know what size/TPI the nut is?
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 04:01:31 AM »
fabricator I will measure the threads today. Here are some more photos of the build.
Should get the bearings today will install the bearings Friday.
going to build the tail support arm today.   :O)

midwoud1

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2014, 05:32:42 AM »
If you know the TPI  and diam. you can make a brass nut on your lathe.
With a small inner thread toolbit.

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 08:37:18 AM »
True, if you have a local Fastenal or nut and bolt supply house you could take it with you and match one up, it is no doubt metric, if neither of those work for you you need to find the pitch (distance from thread to thread) then you could just order a couple from mcmaster.com.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2014, 05:16:50 PM »
OK fabricator, WELL TOMORROW i WILL KNOW IF i NEED THE NUT FOR SURE AS I AM CUTTING THE RECESS'S FOR THE BEARINGS.
HERE ARE SOME  PICTURES OF THE TAIL RAIL SECTION.

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2014, 06:04:05 PM »
How big is your rotor going to be? You are going to have no yaw tube offset? And do you plan on having dome kind of furling?
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2014, 09:41:26 PM »
Hi fabricator, I was going to use the smart motor for the vertical axis turbine but I changed my Mind
so I have been working on this horizontal version.  Here in California the wind hardly gusts more than 30 where I live so furling the tail may  not be needed.??
The props will be 30 inches each starting with seven blades and will go backwards if I need more torque.

fabricator

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »
Anything over three blades will just cause turbulence, one blade is best, two blades are hard to balance and can because of interaction with the tower can cause a mill to run very rough, so three is the trade off, how many blades do you see on the mills at big commercial wind farms?
Any mill usually requires some sort of furling or electronic braking to ensure you never have a runaway condition that could completely destroy the mill which is very dangerous to life and property, and the pricey electronics it's hooked up to.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 04:19:47 PM »
Heres today's photos :O)

midwoud1

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 04:45:31 PM »
Hi Captainward.
Good work . But have a look at The Backshed .
There is  a  design matched to the right size 3 blade prop.
Fisher&Paykel . Off set shaft.
Furling tail is a must.
http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/fp2a.asp


captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2014, 03:33:23 AM »
Hi midwould1, fabricator. thanks for your advice. yes I saw that page and used some of the ideas for my turbine,
I am thinking of using a Tilt-Back furling method for my project, as I am building a square tower and putting a spring hinge plate on it seems simple compared to all that twestie stuff on the tail assembly.


captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2014, 03:38:08 AM »
So I'm l@@king at the bearings that go with the smart motor shaft and they are very stiff. on my vawt i used pillow block bearings and used motor oil and they sppin real nice.  maybe I can open the bearing and put some motor oil in them to get the bearing to spin easly?   any  thoughts????

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2014, 03:38:39 PM »
HERE ARE SOME RECENT PHOTOS OR UPDATES.

Flux

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2014, 03:44:30 PM »
Before you blame the bearings, the F & P motor is iron cored and will have drag. When assembled it will not spin freely. If it is hard to turn with the magnet rotor off then it may be bearing drag from the seals. I seriously doubt that it is the lubricant that is causing the drag, more likely seals until they have run for a time.

I haven't had a look at the BACK SHED

Flux

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 04:02:06 PM »
I thought something had gone wrong with that last post, it vanished and when I found it and finished it and tried to post it said I had already posted.

Anyway what I intended to say was that I haven't looked at the Back Shed but a 5ft prop seems small for an F & P and start up may not be good unless it is a high solidity prop with fairly low tsr. There is probably little point is using morer than 3 blades but they may have to be wide for such a small prop.

So much work has been done on the F & P for HAWTs that it seems pointless not doing what others have found to work, so check the ideal prop size.

Vertical furling is not as simple as it seems, it works ok on a very clean site but on a turbulent site avoid it like the plague unless you can devise a very effective yaw damper

Flux

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2014, 01:06:28 AM »
Hello Flux, Thanks for your good information and food for thought.  :O)

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 05:00:37 PM »
TODAYS UPDATES:

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 05:04:00 PM »
HERE ARE SOME RECENT PHOTOS.

gizmo

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2014, 12:45:36 AM »
The F&P will survive over speeding, even when shorted. As the RPM goes up the core becomes saturated and the power curve flattens off. Limits the peak power, but it will never burn out and they are pretty much bullet proof.

Still, a furling system is a good idea, it protects the rest of the machine from over speeding. We tend to install a furl pull cable these days, with a cable that runs down the tower to let us pull the tail around into full furl.

You will need bigger blades. Around 2.2 meter ( about 7.3 foot ) diameter is a good all rounder for a single stator, 2.6 or so for a dual stator. The GOE222 blades are a good match for the F&P, lots of low down torque and good power up in the rev's.

The F&P is famous for its reluctance to start up in light winds do to the cogging of the alternator, but there are a few ways to fix this. Rounding the poles helps a little, but pole twisting gives much better results. The 7 phase mod has no cogging at all and starts in any wind, but has limited output rewire options compared to a normal F&P. These days a set of GOE222 blades and slightly twisted poles is all you need to get the thing started in light winds. If you go for a dual stator you can offset one stator slightly to reduce cog even further. Its no longer an issue.

Properly set up, a single will make 300 watts pretty easily, 500w for a dual. You can play around with cap modes and my favourite, staggered outputs, to give a alternator with low cut in and good mid range power.

Be careful of spinning it with the stator in factory configuration, that is, not rewired for lower voltage. The F&P can easily generate over 300 volts and a spin by hand is enough to kill someone.

Glenn

gizmo

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2014, 12:48:41 AM »
Just adding, I would make the tail boom longer, get that tail further out the back to make it more stable. Also the F&P vibrates, the aluminium fins may resonate and make an annoying noise. Been there, had a F&P with a aluminium tail, make a horrid noise at certain RPM's. Replaced it with ply wood. But you wont know until its up in the air.

Glenn

captainward

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2014, 06:12:30 PM »
Hi Gizmo, Well thanks for your thoughts the tail peace has to be fixed it is too heavy so back to the drawing board for the tail section. I wonder if the blades you mentioned are 2 or 3 blade design?
What are the shipping cost form there?

gizmo

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Re: CHANGING GENERATOR MOTORS 2 Fisher and Paykel
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2014, 06:23:10 PM »
3 blade, always 3 blade. 2 blades will shake your fillings out. Any more than 3 is a waste of money for no gain.

Try Royal Fabrication, they make the GOE222 in timber. http://www.royalwindandsolar.com/
There are a couple of suppliers in Australia for PVC or aluminium blades, but I think freight is a killer to the USA. See http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/kits.asp. Note, I don't get anything for promoting these blades, I just happen to think they work better than anything else for the price and size.