Author Topic: magnet piston engine (Read 40491 times)

dbcollen · « **Reply #66 on:** October 05, 2014, 12:11:49 AM »

Quote from: GoVertical on October 04, 2014, 01:20:00 PM

Hi, it is torque multiplier.

And what you fail to understand is: when you multiply torque, you divide speed/distance/rpm by the same factor. If you calculate in energy to overcome inertia and drag in your fulcrum, that is your LOSS in your "torque multiplier" TANSTAFL..... "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

Cheers

GoVertical · « **Reply #67 on:** October 05, 2014, 05:02:08 AM »

Hi, thanks for the input. I will follow the test outlined by gizmo. We will see how it goes. Cheers

Bruce S · « **Reply #68 on:** October 06, 2014, 10:50:15 AM »

---BEGIN GM MODE---

All, at the request of several people who I consider trustworthy, I'm breaking one rule (moving something out of quarantine) put there by another Mod.
HOWEVER: I am formally requesting that GoVertical NOT ever post something from kneely net again.
That site is known for OU stuff, and has been ever since I've been logging into BBSs.

IF we see another post that even looks like OU, I personally will Quarantine this post and probably lock GV for 30 days.
DO NOT make me look like a fool

.
I do that enough on my own !

.

---END GM MODE--

-

I'm removing the links right after I post this do not add them back.

DamonHD · « **Reply #69 on:** October 06, 2014, 11:30:27 AM »

Thanks for handling this Bruce!

GoVertical · « **Reply #70 on:** October 06, 2014, 12:43:14 PM »

Hi, thanks for the heads up. No problem here.

PMA mounted, I am starting with the 3 stator PMA because it has a lower stator resistance and will match a MPPT controller that I have purchased with custom software that limits the duty cycle to 20%. This is to save time, I will test the F&P at a later date. Working on adding gearbox.

GoVertical · « **Reply #71 on:** October 06, 2014, 01:54:54 PM »

Time for some humor, feel free to sing along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

GoVertical · « **Reply #72 on:** October 09, 2014, 07:35:31 AM »

http://www.magtrol.com/support/motorpower_calc.html

http://www.calcunation.com/calculators/machinery/mechanical%20power/gear-speed-increaser.php

posting just for info.

GoVertical · « **Reply #73 on:** October 09, 2014, 04:47:02 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ums4vhEKiC8&feature=youtu.be

Project update

gizmo · « **Reply #74 on:** October 10, 2014, 02:51:50 AM »

In the notes to the video you say you plan to use a 12v motor drawing 1.25 amps. Cool, that's a input power of 15 watts. But then you say you expect to get 12v at 10 amps from the output. That's 120 watts out. That's not going to happen. That's OU.

You will get less than 15 watts out, period, if you are putting 15 watts in. No amount of MPPT, gravity assist, or pixie dust, will give you more out than you are putting in, unless you provide an additional energy source. Gravity is not an energy source, unless you plan to hang a weight from a rope and use that to provide some extra watts input via a pulley.

Sorry mate, not picking on you, but at some point you got to come to grips with the laws of thermodynamics. Your putting a lot of energy and time into this project, and I'm afraid your going to be left frustrated and confused why it didn't work.

Glenn

GoVertical · « **Reply #75 on:** October 10, 2014, 05:33:42 AM »

Hi, I understand and I am not feeling picked on. I can not pick up a car but I can use a jack to pick the car up.
The combination of the small electric motor and the mechanical advantage of the rotating lever arm will produce a total torque at the output shaft. It has been said that there is "no free lunch" so the loss is distance. But it is travelling in a circle and the output will be used to generate electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxIRaJlTD4Y

The build is almost complete and I will post results when available.

dbcollen · « **Reply #76 on:** October 10, 2014, 10:37:46 AM »

I have been calling BS on this from the beginning. This site is definitely going downhill.(Maybe you can get some energy from that, with a little mechanical advantage) It is disappointing that the moderators are letting this continue

Th

joestue · « **Reply #77 on:** October 10, 2014, 12:03:36 PM »

from your youtube:
" This is NOT a OU project. It is a gravity assisted motor project. Basically the tilt plate creates a situation where the weight is always falling."

the weight is not always falling, in fact it is not falling at all, even initially.

dnix71 · « **Reply #78 on:** October 10, 2014, 07:20:44 PM »

Skinner's motor is an OU machine. This thread needs to be dev nulled. Strictly speaking the weight that is moving down in a cycle can be used to extract work [force through gravity] but then the same weight has to rise again so there is no net gain, and because of bearing and air friction there is a net loss. Gravity offers no assistance at all. That claim is an outright lie. If you substitute a flywheel for the weights the result is the same.

There is no free lunch. Breakfast and dinner ain't free either.

peswiki.com/index.php/News:Gravity_Motors
energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17195-william-f-skinner-1939-gravity-power.html My strike throughs in case you want references to Skinner's false claims.

GoVertical you have some nice fabrication skills. You are wasting them on this project.

GoVertical · « **Reply #79 on:** October 11, 2014, 07:36:58 AM »

Hi, yes please delete the post. I am saying it is not OU. Others are saying it is OU. This was originally started as a project posted in the diary section. The plan is to complete the project, perform some basics tests, and post the results. I have always stated that OU is PU.
Cheers, and enjoy the day.

GoVertical · « **Reply #80 on:** October 11, 2014, 08:17:39 AM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjOW-_sjLYs

The solution to solve the argument is to replace the small electric motor with a VAWT. Then it becomes a wind project.

Feel free to sing along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

gizmo · « **Reply #81 on:** October 11, 2014, 06:04:29 PM »

The reason we are calling it OU is because you agree you are putting in X watts, and expecting to get out more than X watts. That's OU, you expect to get more out than you put in.

The laws of thermodynamics tell us this wont work. These are laws, they can not be bent or broken, not matter what any clown with a new gravity motor on YouTube says.

I would like to see this thread continue because the construction is very good and easy to follow thanks to GoVerticals skill, so anyone else considering the same sort of machine can see how another person tried to build such a device and failed to get it to work. If nothing else, this build may stop others going down the same path.

Glenn

GoVertical · « **Reply #82 on:** October 11, 2014, 07:25:10 PM »

Hi, there are two machines in one. The upper part is a lever that changes the position of the center of gravity. The second machine is the weight that always falls toward the center of gravity and drives the output shaft. I still say it is not OU because it will never generate more power than the output shaft can provide.

gizmo · « **Reply #83 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:27:19 PM »

The energy required to change the centre of gravity will be more than that gained from the change.

Put you machine into a box. You have a input, and a output, and other than that, the box is sealed so cant be affected by wind currents or solar energy. That is, there are no other energy sources that could be harnessed by the device in the box. Gravity acts on the box, as does air pressure and temperature.

You apply power, in your example, 15 watts of electrical power, to the input of your box. You will NEVER get more than 15 watts out. You will only get less than 15 watts. No matter what. That's it, final.

dnix71 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:42:27 PM »

You don't have two machines, you have one. A flywheel spinning like a grinding wheel has one-half always moving down and the other always moving up, but there is no useful work out of that arrangement unless you transfer energy out and slow the wheel down.

Any OU machine design is going to be a "contraption" designed to confuse people about what is going on. Your mechanical device transfers energy to an MPPT and then to a battery bank. The only thing that matters is how much mechanical energy input you need to drive the mechanical part and the total wattage out by the genset attached. The MPPT is there to adjust the voltage to match your battery state. If you input 100 watts mechanical you cannot get more than 100 watts electrical out. In real life you would be lucky to get 50 watts out. Any claim otherwise is a lie and a claim of OU.

Gearing on a windmill is usually a bad idea. Even the big boys don't put gear boxes on commercial wind stations anymore because of maintenance issues. MPPT's and adjusting blade pitch makes for stable output and a long mean time between failures.

GoVertical · « **Reply #85 on:** October 12, 2014, 03:12:00 AM »

Hi, the question that will be answered is, is the input the 60 pound weight that is spinning at 60 RPM or the small motor that is changing the center of gravity using a lever. I will post results when available. Thanks for the info.

gizmo · « **Reply #86 on:** October 12, 2014, 07:36:52 AM »

That's a easy one. The power out would be less than the power used by the motor. The laws of thermodynamics tell us that. The 60 pound "thing" is nothing more than a device to convert one type of motion to another, and a flywheel. In fact, the heavier the weight, the less output, as bearing friction would be robbing more power.

GoVertical · « **Reply #87 on:** October 12, 2014, 09:07:00 AM »

Hi, that is the disagreement. At this time I view the 60 pound "thingy" as a weight that is always falling to find the center of gravity.
This is why I decided to fabricate the device and test.

gizmo · « **Reply #88 on:** October 12, 2014, 06:20:40 PM »

No, it is nothing more than a flywheel. You can only harness less power than you put in. Any more and it will quickly come to a stop, as you will discover.

Take a space satellite like the ISS. Its a couple hundred km up, but the gravity up there is only slightly less than it is here on earth. Therefore its been pulled down, falling, very quickly towards the earth. But, its also moving at right angles to the center of the earth, at such a speed, that even though its falling, the earth's surface is also falling away due to the curvature of the planet. Therefore, the IIS is constantly falling. If the IIS stopped is forward movement, it would plummet to the earth in a few minutes due to gravity.

The IIS is therefore acting like a flywheel. Even though its got lots of speed, and gravity acting on it, if you take any energy out of its forward movement, it would quickly slow down and fall to earth.

Forget the crap about gravity motors and changing the center of gravity. It's rubbish. All you are creating is a device to change one type of motion to another. You can ONLY extract less power than you put in, or it will quickly slow down and stop.

GoVertical · « **Reply #89 on:** October 12, 2014, 06:51:19 PM »

Hi, thanks for the info. I still have to fabricate the drive train and gearbox and test. I will post results when available.

GoVertical · « **Reply #90 on:** October 12, 2014, 06:54:14 PM »

It is better to try and fail, than not to try at all.

DamonHD · « **Reply #91 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:47:43 AM »

Well, unless you are trying to overturn the laws of thermodynamics, in which case you are guaranteed to fail and may have wasted time and skills better spent on other things.

A real danger of OU stuff is that people who found 'science' boring at school believe that the above laws don't apply to them or are irrelevant, and won't be convinced otherwise.

Rgds

Damon

GoVertical · « **Reply #92 on:** October 13, 2014, 05:08:01 AM »

Hi, OU is PU. Two machines are included in one. I believe the real input is the 60 pound weight spinning at 100 RPM which will send about 850 watts to the PTO. The PTO will drive a 1 to 6 gearbox that will reduce 850 W * 0.15 to about 127 W. 127/12= about 10 amps at 12 volts.

I was just posting a project in the diary section...

Bruce S · « **Reply #93 on:** October 13, 2014, 09:29:26 AM »

GV;
I will move this thread back into the diary section.

GoVertical · « **Reply #94 on:** October 13, 2014, 05:17:25 PM »

Hi, installed drive DC motor. I am using a 12 volt DC windshield wiper motor. I did a simple test and found the 1 to 1 ratio is way to fast.
I will be slowing the RPM's and increasing the drive weight. The gearbox will have a increased ratio to increase the PMA RPM's.. It should be much safer to operate. Everything became really exciting really fast. I am starting to realize heavy weights spinning at a high RPM is really dangerous.

I plan to complete the gearbox and PMA and test first with a manual crank input. It looks like a DC PWM circuit will be needed.

GoVertical · « **Reply #95 on:** October 14, 2014, 05:33:03 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjyucX4Pk8&feature=youtu.be

project update

gizmo · « **Reply #96 on:** October 18, 2014, 09:21:59 AM »

Hi GoVertical

I think its important that you post the results of your tests. Too many times we see people try to develop this type of device, but as the project nears completion, we hear nothing further about it. This either means... (1) the device worked and the oil companies have kidnapped them, (2) or the device didn't work, but the builder didn't want to admit.

There is also the 3rd option, the type of person who mock up a fake video and say their invention did work. I consider these people below human, because their "fake" claims lead others to invest time and effort into something that could never work.

Don't be afraid to admit the device didn't work as expected. Your exceptional construction skills and effort put into this will be a good lesson for others thinking of going down the same path. You will prove the fakes are indeed fakes.

Glenn

GoVertical · « **Reply #97 on:** October 18, 2014, 10:25:08 AM »

Hi, fabricating the drive train and gearbox is more challenging than I first thought. It should be a few more days. I will post results as soon as they are available.

GoVertical · « **Reply #98 on:** October 18, 2014, 05:53:27 PM »

Photo update, we all should know in a few days.