Hot Fill Washing Machines RIP :(

[Vortechs]

I live in a remote area and have a micro-hydro electric system with a 2.3KW inverter.

For many years I've run an old Whirlpool front loader washing machine with hot water added from a back boiler or gas water heater.  Recently the washing machine broke and I am unable to get the replacement part for it anywhere in the world as they are now obsolete.

I cannot buy a new machine because in Europe there are no 'Hot Fill' machines available any more. Also I'm told you cannot connect the hot inlet upto the cold fill as it freaks out the onboard computer....

I'm stuck for 2 weeks now with no washing machine!    What do other people do?

[joestue]

if you do buy a new one and want to use hot water.. find the temperature sensor and defeat it.

[JW]

My washing machine uses hot water from the water heater. There are two water inlets one cold one hot, the machine uses 120vac and will self empty at the end of the cycle. Its a top load machine.

[dnix71]

Vortechs In the US most machines are programmed not to fill from just the hot water inlet, but there is no temperature sensor that I know of. I have a compact portable washer that is a normal washing machine, just smaller and with temporary hose connectors for a sink connection. If I wanted to fill from hot water only I would simply turn on the hot water and not the cold. There are also y-hoses available. Connect the y-hose to hot and cold supply, use a double-ended female connector to connect the mix to the machine cold inlet and manually mix whatever you want.

[JW]

Little known secret, the hoses and adapters for HVLP Spray guns are compatible with water hose connections. I have actually used convertor adapters from water hose connection to NPT

 

[hiker]

Nice little ..hit and miss..engine....my dad had a couple hundred of those old engines...started a club down in cave junction Oregon.....😜

[Vortechs]

I'm in Ireland. European washing machines have only had cold water fill connections for about the last 10 to 15 years. The machines all heat cold water inside with a 2KW or 3KW immersion coil.

The new ones are all computerized with many temperature and pressure sensors. I'm told by others who have been through this that adding hot water (through the soap tray or cold fill) that is above the expected temperature freaks out the computer which then responds by dumping all the water and going straight to the rinse cycle.

Joestue's suggestion might work but I'd have to buy a new machine to try it out and if it didn't work I'd be stuck with a machine I couldn't use.

[dnix71]

Vortechs That sounds like a proper challenge to me. If I had one of those new fangled junk machines, I would take the drain hose and run it back in the top and see how long it took for the machine to figure out it couldn't empty itself. In the mean time the clothes are being washed by the water circulating.

https://removeandreplace.com/2016/09/19/samsung-washing-machine-displays-error-code-te-how-to-clear-error/  This repair page says the thermistor is in the back of the machine. Pull it out, plug the hole and let it sit in some cold water.

If I needed to fill a machine with scalding hot water I might just fill it with a hose and then turn it on. If you buy a cheaper machine that does not have a built-in heater, then you won't need to defeat the 2 extra thermistors on the heated water loop.

[SparWeb]

Hi Vortechs,
"unable to get the replacement part for it anywhere in the world as they are now obsolete."

Can you please tell me more about the replacement part you need?  It sounds like you've exhausted many avenues of finding the part, but maybe we can come up with something else.
Being in Canada, I may be very limited in the help I can directly offer, but perhaps others seeing what the part is, how it's made, will have better ideas.

[frackers]

I had a similar problem a while ago and spent some time looking at what was available on the market that could use my solar heated hot water. I ended up with a Fisher & Paykel front loader. Best machine I've ever had!!

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/front-loaders/washsmart-7-5kg.WH7560P2.html

Their website has an 'ie' page so I would expect their products are available.

[oztules]

Hmmm.... you could pull the thermister out into free air (ambient temp),  disconnect the immersion heater, and then select cold water wash ....so it does not bother waiting for the water to heat up, and hook up hose from your hot water.

That way you will defeat it's best efforts to mess with you, and you still get to use your own hot water... it just does not know that.


........oztules

[dnix71]

Americans and Europeans wash clothes differently it seems. I dislike front loaders because sooner or later they leak and make a mess. Top loaders can leak, but it's usually underneath at hose connections or the water pump gasket or drain hose.

Europeans like to use very hot water to sterilize clothes. Water that hot would ruin the polyester blends common in the US. Even a hot tumble dryer will put a shine on polyester pants and ruin them.

Americans like chemistry. Enzymes and surfactants, plus bleach or ammonia or peroxide bleach substitutes. Ariel in the UK is Proctor and Gamble's cold water enzyme based detergent.

I personally avoid using powdered detergents because they don't dissolve completely in the hard water here and many times have silica added to prevent clumping. Silica is fine sand and it wears out the inside of the machine and the clothes themselves.

The machine I own has programmable soak delay, to allow clothes to sit for a while if you pretreated stains with a chemical. Hot water will set blood, egg and other protein stains, and hot water will destroy the enzymes added to detergents, so I rarely wash in hot water.

[Vortechs]

Hi Vortechs,
"unable to get the replacement part for it anywhere in the world as they are now obsolete."

Can you please tell me more about the replacement part you need?  It sounds like you've exhausted many avenues of finding the part, but maybe we can come up with something else.
Being in Canada, I may be very limited in the help I can directly offer, but perhaps others seeing what the part is, how it's made, will have better ideas.

This is the part I need:
https://www.partmaster.co.uk/ardo/washing-machine/drum-spider-bearing-support-shaft-thick/product.pl?pid=189528&shop=ardo&path=803768

There's only 3 places left selling it and I've bought one from every one of them, but unfortunately they're all selling the wrong part because the supplier is supplying them the wrong part. I replaced this part in my machine from one of these sites 4 years ago so I know what I'm talking about.

I had a similar problem a while ago and spent some time looking at what was available on the market that could use my solar heated hot water. I ended up with a Fisher & Paykel front loader. Best machine I've ever had!!

https://www.fisherpaykel.com/nz/laundry/washing-machines/front-loaders/washsmart-7-5kg.WH7560P2.html

Their website has an 'ie' page so I would expect their products are available.

Thanks, that model doesn't seem to be available outside of AU & NZ.
Yesterday I found a Fisher & Paykel  WH8060J1 that has a hot-fill but it's not available anywhere in Ireland, only UK. Today my neighbour who drives back and forth to the UK said he'll bring it over for my in 6 weeks when he comes back, so I'll probably end up doing that.

I also found out these models that apparently have hot-fill's (again not available here):
Ebac various models
Samsung WF80F5E2W4X 

Hmmm.... you could pull the thermister out into free air (ambient temp),  disconnect the immersion heater, and then select cold water wash ....so it does not bother waiting for the water to heat up, and hook up hose from your hot water.

That way you will defeat it's best efforts to mess with you, and you still get to use your own hot water... it just does not know that.


........oztules

That's a possibility if all else fails. Would be nice to not have to mess about like that if I can avoid it though.

Americans and Europeans wash clothes differently it seems. I dislike front loaders because sooner or later they leak and make a mess. Top loaders can leak, but it's usually underneath at hose connections or the water pump gasket or drain hose.

Europeans like to use very hot water to sterilize clothes. Water that hot would ruin the polyester blends common in the US. Even a hot tumble dryer will put a shine on polyester pants and ruin them.

Americans like chemistry. Enzymes and surfactants, plus bleach or ammonia or peroxide bleach substitutes. Ariel in the UK is Proctor and Gamble's cold water enzyme based detergent.

I personally avoid using powdered detergents because they don't dissolve completely in the hard water here and many times have silica added to prevent clumping. Silica is fine sand and it wears out the inside of the machine and the clothes themselves.

The machine I own has programmable soak delay, to allow clothes to sit for a while if you pretreated stains with a chemical. Hot water will set blood, egg and other protein stains, and hot water will destroy the enzymes added to detergents, so I rarely wash in hot water.

All that environmental pollution! 

I have a condition called Multi Chemical Sensitivity. I can only use pure vegetable soap or old fashioned washing soda, all the modern stuff makes me ill, so hot water is fairly essential to get the closes clean.

[JW]

The water discharged from a washer, or shower is called "gray water".

[OperaHouse]

Your friends don't necessarily know and the appliance makers are not out to get RE. I modified a dishwasher to work in full sun. Surprisingly, a dishwasher uses well under 100W without the heater. I run the heater directly off the PV DC buss and controlled by the voltage that used to go to the element. My water temp is 120F, but by the time it gets to the dishwasher it is cooler. It is only about a half gallon each fill so it is hard to warm up the pipes.  It will fault if it doesn't go above 120F in a cycle. I was going to do a purge each fill, but extra insulation and PV heating solved that problem.

For any washer you should be able to view the owners and service manual online.  It will tell you specifically the faults that will be given and what needs to be done to fix them. This is the only source of information you should listen to, not random internet chatter.  Any detectable fault will have a work around.

[dnix71]

Vortechs This machine is available in the UK and supports 90 C wash temps. The reviews say the drum bearings are part of the drum and not separately replaceable. I wouldn't even consider 90C water. That's hospital grade burns if you get splashed. The high temps also have to be considered when making the machine. The cheap American washing machines would probably melt if filled with 90C water. My machine has a stainless steel drum, but most other parts are plastic.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Classixx-1200-spin-Washing-machine-White-2-years-old-only-NO-RESERVE/153014402787

[SparWeb]

Hi Vortechs,
Call me a stubborn b*****d if you will, I have to keep asking:  What's wrong with the part in the washer now?  Since it is made of metal, have you considered repairing it yourself?  At first glance one needs a lathe to make a new hub, and a welding machine to make a new spider.  I know I could make a replacement, if I had a lathe, and I don't consider myself particularly skillful.  Even if you don't have these tools, skilled people in Ireland are not hard to find.

[OperaHouse]

I don't know if you actually have 90C water, but that temp is high enough that it likely shows a shorted sensor fault.  At that temp the resistance is probably under 100 ohms. Probably putting a 1.5K resistor in series would prevent shorted sensor fault.  At the cold end of the scale, 1.5K would not even be noticed.

[frackers]

Yesterday I found a Fisher & Paykel  WH8060J1 that has a hot-fill but it's not available anywhere in Ireland, only UK. Today my neighbour who drives back and forth to the UK said he'll bring it over for my in 6 weeks when he comes back, so I'll probably end up doing that.

That looks the same as mine - presumably the suffix defines the country regulations/voltage etc. We were amazed at how fast the quick hot was was - 35minutes for 40c hot wash for towels.

Another advantage of the F & P is that at end of life you have a great generator for a wind turbine

[Vortechs]

frackers, Looking at the specs, it says it doesn't use the hot fill for any washes under 40*C. Do you have enough power to cover it heating water electrically (if it decides it wants to)? I don't so I'd be faced with the problem of having to disconnect the heating element (so it wont overload my inverter) - will the computer then freak out and refuse to run the wash cycles if I do that?

Hi Vortechs,
Call me a stubborn b*****d if you will, I have to keep asking:  What's wrong with the part in the washer now?  Since it is made of metal, have you considered repairing it yourself?  At first glance one needs a lathe to make a new hub, and a welding machine to make a new spider.  I know I could make a replacement, if I had a lathe, and I don't consider myself particularly skillful.  Even if you don't have these tools, skilled people in Ireland are not hard to find.

SparWeb, thanks for your suggestions. I live in a really remote area. It's half a days drive to the nearest 'engineer' and back, and he's 50 euro an hour and cant even cut sheet steel square and to the right size... It would cost me the price of a new machine to get the part made. I've though of trying myself, but don't think the machine is worth putting the energy into.

Hmmm.... you could pull the thermister out into free air (ambient temp),  disconnect the immersion heater, and then select cold water wash ....so it does not bother waiting for the water to heat up, and hook up hose from your hot water.

That way you will defeat it's best efforts to mess with you, and you still get to use your own hot water... it just does not know that.
........oztules

Actually that's not such a bad idea. I could get any old machine so long as it has a separate temperature selector, set it to cold, plumb my gas water heater up to the cold inlet and just turn off the gas when it's finished filling - when the gas is off the water just comes out cold, so it can use that fine for the rinses.   Hmm... 

[Darren73]

EBAC manufacture hot fill machines link below if allowed

https://www.ebac.com/washing-machines

[JW]

The threshold to be able to post links is 20 posts, we have relaxed from 50 posts.

[madlabs]

What do the laundromats in your area use? Around here it is much older machines that you can still get parts for. Maybe you could see about getting what they use or buying an older unit from somewhere?

I had to replace my old washer a few years ago and got a Speed Queen that still uses a simple mechanical timer. These are the same as used in some laundromats. I will be able to get parts for many years and since I am off the grid concerns over power consumption are not a problem. I hate the fancy electronic control types, slow and don't do as good a job.

Also I have used nothing but cold water to wash clothes for many years. My clothes get as dirty and greasy as anybody's and they come clean no problem.