Here's what I'm cobbling together...feel free to comment....

[TheEquineFencer]

I have 4 POS used cracked panels I probably paid too much for, but hey, they sort of work...open circuit I'm getting 40-42V....I mounted  the panels to a rack at about 30* facing the most prevalent sun...I plan to wire the panels in parallel and dump them into a TS-MPPT-45 I have. I have two 12V lead acid 1400CCA Cat brand batteries at 24V. I have a 500W UPS that came with (2) 12V 4.5Ah batteries that I've added (4) 7.5Ah battereies to. I plan to connect this to the (2) CAT 12V batteries and leave the 7.5Ah batteries for something else down the road. Basically, I'm doing what I can with what I have or now.

Eventually I'll find some better panels at better price. I may have found some up in NJ, USA but they want $2800.00 USD for a pallet (28) of 250W Poly panels. I'm waiting on a call back from them on shipping for just (4) of those for now. I think they may be $100 each plus $50 for breaking a pallet plus shipping...

Eventually I'll find/buy a bigger inverter and hopefully be able to at least get the lighting for my shop off grid. For now I'd like to get my computer and TV/monitor in the shop off grid.

Any input would be great!

 

[Bruce S]

Have you checked the power from the panels into a partially discharged battery?
That will give you a good indication of how the cracked panels are going workout.

A couple digital meters, 1 setup for voltage under a load 1 for current coming from panels to battery , this will help you plan the next step.

Hope this helps
Bruce S

[TheEquineFencer]

Nope, I've got the panels set in place and conduit run up to the building for right now.  I'm going to wire all the panels to a common wire(s) and them bring them inside to the TriStar. I do not have enough 8 ga. wire to get from the panels to the TriStar so I may use (2) 12s to get there for what amperage I thinnk it might be. I figured I'd do the checking once it was wired to see what I actually get.

I have (1) good meter, a Fluke 87V. I need to pick up a good Amp clamp for checking amp loads. I may get one from Lowes as much as I hate to, I'll do some checking for one.

I just got off the phone with a ReLion battery rep about 6V AGM batteries, they are getting me a price on them. I'm still waiting on a quote for new panels with shipping from NJ,USA to my location. It'll cost me around $300 USD for fuel to go get them and about 16+ hours of driving if I go myself. I've got another call into a place about some plain wet batteries for solar use.

[OperaHouse]

I need to finally get around to building a dedicated load tester.  I have one built into the system to check the overall array performance, but not individual panels. When I did this years ago I went through a manual process and was surprised at the low power points of my older 12V panels.  Normally working with electronics is fun. I've had to do so much after the lightning strike that I'm just satisfied to have things working. Come September real issues are likely to show up with shorter days and clouds. Just blew up an inverter, not from the strike.  I was trying to straighten up some wiring and was passing an exposed wire near the inverter. Forgot there was no cover on the bottom.  All my wiring is approved by Undertaker Labs.

[TheEquineFencer]

OperaHouse, I'm going to steal that last line....(pun intended)

[hiker]

😜

[TheEquineFencer]

It's been too hot and humid to do much today....I've started looking at solar powered fans like a friend has for her live stock....

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

I may have found some [better panels at a good price] up in NJ, USA but they want $2800.00 USD for a pallet (28) of 250W Poly panels. I'm waiting on a call back from them on shipping for just (4) of those for now. I think they may be $100 each plus $50 for breaking a pallet plus shipping...

Cracked panels can be expected to experience moisture infiltration and accelerated ageing.

Are you serious about going solar?  Do you have three grand to throw at it now?  How much is your time worth (or is that negative because you're having so much fun fiddling around that the entertainment value is dominant)?  You're already thinking about spending half a grand.  And I bet you get dinged a lot more than $50 for repackaging, higher per-pound shipping for something smaller than a pallet, and leaving the seller with a partial pallet of panels to try to unload.

250 * 28 = 7 kW.  * 5 solar hours = 35 kWh/day.  /24 hr = 1.458 (about 1 1/2) kW.  That's a house load with only moderate attention to usage.

$100 per 250 watts is 40 cents/watt.  That was close to the bottom before the anti-dumping tariffs went iolenged (not dinged)?

Are they UL approved (or ETL or other approved NRTL that your local building code department and your home/building insurance company accept)?  Are they by a recognized manufacturer with a good record?  If so, then only downside might be that they age a little faster than single-crystal panels.

You might want to just gab the bargain while it's there and get a your panels installed and done with.  Then you can add a charge controller(s), batteries, and inverter(s) as other bargains show up.  You don't have to USE all that power right away.  Just don't connect (or enable) all the panels if you have a smaller controller/battery bank/inverter combo than the bank could drive.  (If you've got the storage space you don't even have to mount all the panels right away.)

[TheEquineFencer]

I'm planning to get just 4 of them for now. I may go with (4) 300W panels they have, that's the max the TriStar MPPT  can handle, They are a little more. If I could get enough interested parties, it'd drop the cost per panel some and the shipping cost per panel would be better.

As far as I know, they are new panels...they buy over runs and surplus panels, cabling and such. PM me an email and I can probably send you a spreadsheet I kinda got by accident.  I am on a mobile device right now, when I get back to my shop I have a few minutes I'll see if I can post the spec sheet for some of the panels.

[TheEquineFencer]

Here's some battery info I received.

REV L16-400 - $279.03 (limited over stock offering)This would cover both a 4 and 8 piece order.
REV L16-400 - $338.82 (more traditional pricing)
Freight would be $106.50.

[TheEquineFencer]

For some reason I cannot upload a PDF with this info, I'll try to copy and paste it and see how it turns out...

Electrical Characteristics at Standard Test Conditions (STC)
Power Class                                       250 W   
Maximum Power (Pmax)                     250 W   
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc)                  37.4 V   
Short Circuit Current (Isc)                  8.89 A   
Voltage at Maximum Power (Vmpp)        30 V   
Current at Maximum Power (Impp 7)   8.33 A     
Module Efficiency (%)                         15.1 %

Pmax, Voc, Isc, Vmpp, and Impp tested at STC defined as irradiance of 1000 W/m2 at AM 1.5 solar spectrum and temperature 25 ± 2 °C.
Electrical Characteristics: measurement tolerance of ± 3 %.


The 250W is what I'm looking at right now, but they have some 300W of another brand I'm looking at also.

[TheEquineFencer]

Ungrounded Lightning Rod, If/when I get some panels from them, I'll only get (4) 250W for now, the shipping is going to kill me on those $250...I was inquiring about the 28-29 panels they have on a pallet as it's $50 less and not but about $530 for for 29 panels. on 20 panels the per cost on shipping is less that $20, on just 4 it's $62.50 each.

[JW]

Posting A PDF is just like posting a picture, the attachment to upload is supported, but not by copy and pasting.

just browse and the file find the PDF and select it from your computer ( like an image or Allowed file types: doc, gif, jpg, mpg, pdf, png, txt, zip ) and you will see that the PDF file will be supported, then attach it.

[TheEquineFencer]

A lot has changed in the past year. I got the cracked 310W panels up and running. I used a MorningStar Tri-Star MPPT-45 charge controller dumping into a pair of used Group 8 12V 200Ah batteries just to get working.

Now for the real update...I had (31) brand new 295w Canadian Solar panels, I'm down to 29 right now, A guy bought 2 ($150 each) today and is coming back in two weeks to get one or two more. I replaced the (4) cracked 310W panels for (4) new blim 300W panels I picked up for $75 each on my fixed Array.

I also have (12) 6V 390Ah AGM batteries now. They are less than a year old and seem to be holding a charge. I'm in the middle of redoing the entire wiring to make it more permanent. I'm adding PVC electrical box with a disconnect outside coming off the Array with a fuse panel inside. I'm going to fuse the (+) leads from the panels, then parallel two panels, then series the two pair, I'll feed that inside to the 45 MPPT Tri-Star. The output from the Tri-Star I'll run to the two 12V group 8 batteries for now.

When I get time, I'll build a rack for the AGM batteries. I'm going to wire them in (3) banks of (4) for 24V each, that'll give me 1170Ah battery bank with just those. Then I'll wire this to the 1200W Array and use the two Group 8's for another little solar project or alternate between battery banks for charging them for now.

I also have two Tri-Star MPPT-60's that showed up...I'm at some point, if I get more of the 300W panels or I may end up using 10 of the 295W panels, build another Array and run the two 60A Tri-Stars off them and put them onto the 1170 AGM bank. I want to build a tracker with this Array. The most amps I'm suppose to put to the AGM batteries is around 90A I think.

I'm looking around now for some breakers to use. I'm pretty good at scrounging up used/new parts at a deal. My G/F calls me a "picker."

I may be getting a source for new Lithium Ion batteries at the cost of new AGM batteries if a buddy can come through for me. I may have to buy a whole container to get them at that price though. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

In the near future I'm going to install the 24vdc 150w LED flood lights, I've got (10) of them, in my shop to replace the (14) tandem T-8 fixtures I have.

I've got to do some math on the battery bank to figure out just how many amps I can pull and for how long to see what I can run without drawing the batteries too low. I've got to come up with a means for LVD (Low Voltage Disconnect) to shed my load or switch a back up battery bank.

My biggest loads, and they do not run for long stretches are my 25 CFM 240V air compressor and my Miller 252 MIG welder. The compressor has a 7.5 hp motor, FLA 31.30 is what the motor data tag says. I wonder how much inverter it'd take to start and run that? The Welder is on a 50A circuit, but I'm pretty sure it never gets near the max rating. I'm thinking a pure sine wave would work best for the compressor and welder.

I'm in need of a battery charger for the battery bank. Right now all I have are a conventional 35/70/265A big charger and two 12V HF that have a max output of 15A, but they do have a setting for AGM batteries.

I'm keeping my eyes out for one if not two Automatic Transfer Switches. I'd like to go off grid and use utility power as my back up if all else fails. The reason for two switches, I have a 30Kw Onan generator I'm working on. I'm in the process of switching it from 3Ph to 1Ph which will derate it to a 20Kw. That's way more than I need, but it's that or the little 3500W/4000W Champion 120/240 I have for now. I'd like to use the solar for my main source. If I have to, or if it fails, it'd switch to generator power or if the loads are too much, such as the compressor or welder, I could use it. I have a lead on a 60Kw Diesel Onan. If someone comes along and wants the 20Kw/30Kw Onan, I'll sell it and go get the 60Kw.

I think I need at least two Relay Drivers for the Tri-Stars, one for use with the pair I'll put the two 60A controllers on with the 10 panels and one to use with the 45A I have. I think with that I can gain a way to have a LVD.

I've got so much going on right now I don't have time to think between work and helping keep the crap here at the shop farm running.

I may be quitting the new job I have. I'm finding it hard to work 40-40+ hours a week and have time for myself and projects. It's almost midnight and I need to out in the shop and get a mower fixed for use in the morning and I'd like to get the Onan switched over. I have it where it'll run on gasoline right now, but I want to set it up where if it runs out of gas, it'll switch over to LPG without having to switch/change anything.

I gave away the 4 cracked panels to the guy that bought two of the 295's from me this morning.

I think I have around $2K in solar parts right now with the batteries.

Any suggestions would be helpful

[SparWeb]

Any suggestions would be helpful

Oh, don't get the smart-a$$es here started!  That's a lot of stuff on your plate, otherwise.  Don't forget to sleep.

Welcome back and it's good to see the system coming together for you.

My biggest loads, and they do not run for long stretches are my 25 CFM 240V air compressor and my Miller 252 MIG welder.  The compressor has a 7.5 hp motor, FLA 31.30 is what the motor data tag says.

I think I see your plan coming together to run them directly off the fuel generators so that you don't have to oversize the other system based on solar.  Plenty of off-gridders do that too.  Easy enough to start up the genny when those special loads are needed and not too inconvenient even if you flip the welder's switch and nothing happens once or twice, before the habit sets in.

I'm not sure about automatic transfer switches - can be expensive and I'm not sure I would want a cheap one.

I have a Xantrex C40 that can be used as a 40 amp LVD controller.  Send me an e-mail if you want it.

[bigrockcandymountain]

My advice...
More panels than 4
Pick your favorite 8 batteries and wire them series for 48v.  Parallel battery strings suck.  I have wrecked many batteries that way.  It can be done but needs checked for corrosion very often and really big cables.

The ts-45 should handle 6 panels easily.  Wire them 3 in series. 

[TheEquineFencer]

Here's a little update...

I bought 4 new "blems", seem to work OK, 300W panels. They are ReneS la, JC300M-24/abh, specs are 44.8 Voc, 36.6 Vmp, 8.69A Isc, 8.20A Imp. That's what I installed in place of the cracked panels I had. I have them running into a MS-45 MPPT controller. This dumps into a bank of 12 AGM batteries.

 I have two panels in series, then I paralleled the two sets. I have a 175A rated switch (kinda over kill) for a disconnect at the array, with the disconnect wired on the (+) output. I have both the (+) and the (-) running into a fuse section, with a 20A fuse on both the (+) and (-). From this "combiner box" I have 8 gauge wire running in PVC conduit into the shop to the MS-45 MPPT on 8 gauge wire. From the controller I ran 8 gauge to the battery bank through a DP60A breaker, it breaks both the (+) and (-). I've got some 6 gauge I've got to change out, as the 8 gauge is not properly rated.

The 12 batteries are EV6390 Leoch 6V AGM 390Ah. They are wired in (3) banks for 24V each. I'm working on getting some 3/0 for jumpers as the 1/0 jumpers are undersized. There's 2/0 on the 24V banks. The (2) 4D batteries are sitting idle for now I have until I come up with a switching system to charge/add them to the mix.

That's about as far along as I am now.

I've been pretty frugal on what I've been buying...12 batteries, they were less than a year old but were DOA when I got them and took a few days to come back, two MS-60A-MMPT controllers, a few breakers, (10) 24V LED flood lights and a few remote meters for the MPPTs. I also have some 295W panels I bought (31) to "flip" and then use what I don't sell. Excluding the 295W panels, I think I have around $2K in everything including the hardware, racking, wire and all right now. That may be a little high, I quit keeping up with actual cost. I also picked up (4) Vanner 12V pure sine wave 300W inverters for $40 each to play with.

At some point I want to build a solar tracking system with the 295W panels. I think I will have around 3000W worth of them after I sell what I don't need. I also have access to some more of the 300W panels if the guy doesn't build himself a system. He has 6000W of them.

In the next few days/weeks, I'll probably wire the 300W inverters to the bank and start running small loads like the TV/monitor and computers off them. I plan to install the LED flood lamps in the ceiling and switch off the tandem T-8 lighting. I'll add another RIB relay to the lighting circuit and I'll have the LEDs work off the control circuit for the 120V lighting. they are on motion sensors. I was given a few 400-1000W MSW inverters I have to take apart and see what's wrong with them.

I need one big 24V inverter. Then I might be able to get the majority of the shop off grid.

I'm unsure how a Miller 252 and my Plasma cutter would like running off and inverter? It'll be a job to start and run the air compressor, (7.5hp 240V) off an inverter I'm sure.

I know where there's two 40A 480V ATSs I might be able to get if I can talk the guy out of letting them go. I'm thinking I can use them and just use small transformers to step the 240V I have to 480V for the voltage sensing and linear actuator operation.

There's an idea I'm kicking around about buying and using a grid tie inverter in sort of an "unorthodox" way that doesn't back feed utility and also will charge a battery bank. I'll start a thread on that at some point as I need to "learn" what I can and can't do with one.

Well, that's where I'm at for now.

[TheEquineFencer]

At present I have a 1200W array, (4) 300W panels dumping into a MorningStar 45 MPPT and then charging a right at 1200Ah battery bank. For an inverter, I took an old UPS for a computer I bought for $20. I took the two batteries out, (2) 12v 5-7Ah, and wired it to the 1200Ah bank. It's been running almost 24 hours now continuous pulling 6.5-7 amps at 26vdc when I checked it this afternoon. My office in the shop is running off this.

I really need a 24v inverter that puts out 120/240 1ph preferably pure sine. 

[SparWeb]

You're in business!

Sounds like a good start.  Using UPS's is tried-and-true way to get cheap 120VAC inverter.
There are some types that can provide 240V - but not common.